Apologies in advance: this is a fairly half baked OP, but the forum is slow and I've had this idea for a thread sort of in the back of my mind for a while :P

Re: virtue, I just mean, broadly speaking, character traits or ways of life that you believe are good and worth trying to embody in your own life. It doesn't need to be restricted to picking from a list of classical virtues or correspond to any traditional understanding or religious belief.

When you picture a more "perfect" you, what traits does that person have?

I'll make a list later, so that I can justify calling this OP half baked

Putting others first.

How come? I think the interesting part (if there is one) of this question is understanding the personal motivations. So like I agree with you and think that altruism, or humility, or other kinds of virtue that have to do with putting others first are important. They are important to me too

I'm not sure how good of a job I can do explaining why I feel that way. I think it's almost an aesthetic thing. A universe in which altruism is a virtue feels more beautiful in some way. Or more complete, more harmonious. Those are all kind of aesthetic things to me.

I think there is also some truth to the idea that I feel better when I am less inwardly motivated, although the psychology (or physiology even) of that may be pretty complex.

i'm not much of an idealist. But I like people that say thank you to the bus driver.

Charity and Empathy.

I'm talking of charity in a broader sense, one that includes accepting a more charitable interpretation or allowing for an act to have been driven by better motivations. I fail this a lot though and while I think the better me does this I consider it's efficacy. I think this makes it less virtuous though and more practical.

I also think the better me is more empathetic, any acts of kindness or compassion I think are driven by an ability to empathise with the recipient.

Following in the footsteps of Pope Francis who says to respect your fellow men by helping the poor. This may seems like a cliche but I do believe there is a way for the world to wipe out poverty.

Also, saying hello to a random person while passing them by on the street or at a shop will make the world a better place. In much of the Muslim and Jewish word, its normal to greet someone with a Salam or Shalom even if you dont know them. This creates more of a family feeling among the community.

Aquinas:

Cardinal Virtues;

Prudence, Justice, Temperance, Fortitude

Theological Virtues ( therein spiritual virtues or how Man relates to God)

Faith, Hope, Charity


Plato : Wisdom, Temperance, Courage, Justice


Aquinas:http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aqui...mma/sum198.htm


Plato: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues

I strive to become more aware of the reality and not only the reality that a person subjectively perceives but rather the reality at it's core or reality without ego, prejudice or any sides, no good, no evil just pure reality, objective. Like being an observer without any prejudice who looks at things as they are and not as you or someone else wish them to be.

A seeker of truth, awareness, authenticity. There is no higher cause - consider yourself lucky.

Being forgiving.

Nothing is harder. I still hold grudges from things that happened 15 to 20 years ago.

From Haidt's research:

1) Harm/Care

2) Fairness/Reciprocity

3) Authority/Respect

4) In-group/Loyalty

5) Purity/Sanctity

I care about 1 and 2. Not so much about 3, 4 or 5 except to the extent that they affect 1 and 2.

Agree. Not only forgiving when it's convenient, after you've cooled off, but practicing forgiveness swiftly and relentlessly in the moment toward others and yourself. And not only practicing it toward the big events but even the small ones. I strive to be relentless with forgiveness. Practicing forgiveness when every instinct in you is to puff your chest out, grit your teeth, and attack back - that is real strength and toughness.

I just strive to be me

Not hurting other's feelings
Not being lazy

The Apostle Paul mentions three things that remain and arguably, only "one thing remains" ( not a biblical quote, but from a worship song ): love ( which can be thought of as much broader than charity, which has a related Greek root word; and it ought to be thought of as "G-dly love" or the "love of G-d" or "agape love"). Paul also mentions the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5, and if we are to walk in the Ruach/Spirit, these fruit(s) ought to increase in measure until they are mature:

love / charity / loving-kindness;

joy / joyfulness;

peace;

patience;

kindness;

goodness / benevolence;

faithfulness / trust in "G-d";

gentleness;

self-control / discipline.


Every virtue ( not just the ones above ) presents challenges for continual improvement: e.g., consider what Yeshua stated in Mt 5:43-48 concerning love. Righteousness is an important related ideal often expressed in the New Testament literature: e.g., Yeshua being immersed by Yochanan the "baptizer" to fulfill all righteousness; in the gospel, a righteousness from G-d is revealed ( Rom 1 ); a careful reading of the gospel of Matthew reveals the importance of righteousness and having "righteousness surpassing that of the scribes and Pharisees".

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but which religion do you belong to? I've never encountered one that is against the letter "o."

I believe at least some Jewish groups (more orthodox?) omit the 'o' or just say HaShem, but I believe mangler belongs to a "messianic" sect (I've heard it called messianic judaism or messianic christianity, I'm not sure which usage is correct or more popular). I attended a few services once, and I'm extrapolating my understanding of mangler's background from the similarity in his usage of hebrew. He can correct me if I'm wrong

Also sorry I haven't followed up I've been trying to catch up on a bunch of work. :P

All things in moderation, an Aristotelian notion, is what I strive for. Thus, I usually indulge in number 8 above.

This thread has too many low content posts IMO. It cheapens the discussion.

Please point out the high content posts

Beer has never cheapen any discussion by man since the beginning of brewing.

Your own post is the cheapest one so far in this thread.

I suggest you read some good book as a better use of your time instead of posting useless complaints. The KJV of the Bible would be a great start.

From what I've learned about moral theories I'm becoming a big fan of Virtue theory. I like the idea that morality is defined by something as seemingly simple as 'being a good person', it doesn't require gods or complex rules that contain flaws or are are not flexible or that create impossible decisions, but I'm planning to do a lot more in-depth reading while I'm away on holiday and can't really add more right now.

A food for thought while you read: the flip side of flexibility is often a lack of specificity. As in, if I make a general statement like "be good", that has the flexibility to apply very broadly and in many different ways. But it lacks any form of specificity of what being good actually is. And if I write out a long list of very specific natures of what "be good" means, then you lose the flexibility. So there often is a trade off.

This isn't specific to virtue ethics, similar problems arise in deontological ethics, for instance. I can give a very general moral rule that applies flexibly but gives no specificity, or very specific rules that allow little flexibility.

Don't forget those teleological ethics!

I am hoping that, before I die I can affect the world in as many "positive" ways as I can, primarily for the future of our species but also other species as well. I would define "positive" as things that promote health, peace, happiness, general well-being, technological advancement, etc. So I guess the underlying virtue is being giving of one's self for the greater good.

Sometimes I get bothered by new-age rhetoric that seems to suggest that all the wold's problems can be solved by self-focused behavior. Meditation is not gonna give clean water to that African village, their consciousness does not have a chance to "flower" like your wealthy american consciousness does.

For some reason I think that physically giving of one's self is the most important virtue (broadly) of them all. Being generally selfish is a waste of a person IMO.