Hey guys,

I've read a lot about religious histories, and was wondering if anyone can recommend me a book.

I'm actually talking about a real book, one that talks about Horus and basically the roots of Christianity as well. It would probably be more towards an atheist or agnostic writing it, because I don't want a Christian writing a book about how awesome and truthful everything in the Bible is, but more of an actual history(and from what I understand so far of the history, with Horus and such as an example, is that if you really understand and write about the history then you aren't likely to believe most of Christianity anyways)

Maybe you should look for something scholarly and stop with all the prejudice.

I don't suppose you did anything elementary like Google "history of religions" did you? Or go to Amazon or....

....no, I guess posting in a forum on a poker website would be the best way to go.

Bad night, Prax? Wow, way to live up to those Christian ideals!!!

Horus bears no genuine resemblance in any way, form, story, event or myth to Jesus whatsoever. Egyptian mythology has tentacled monsters and a bunch of gods, some with animal heads. Seriously.

Don't take some random internet movie at face value without fact checking. I don't think you should be asking about sources - you should be learning how to use sources.

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method

Some angels have animals heads also. Cherub.

They actually had four faces. We could also mention that Isis had wings. There is still extremely little resemblance from Egyptian mythology to Christian mythology unless the one who looks for it is truly desperate.

But anyways...Horus is a warrior god who chops testicles of the evil one, has the moon for an eye, a falcon's head and can fly. It's not exactly a DNA match to Jesus. One who makes it out to be so will also have to concede that the Jesus bears great resemblence to Optimus Prime.

meh... for faces four heads.

I agree about the Jesus/Horus stuff. But i think it is wrong to say Egyptian mythology had no influence on Judaism or Christianity.

Sorry to offend you. You seem to be very angry about the subject.

I am not looking at it in a prejudiced way. I have read books by Christian authors, and the use of things like "faith" and just believing in things doesn't appeal to me. Also using the Bible as a reference to a historical fact or being true just because the Bible says it isn't a thing I like. I want the truth, and so far I have found that simply Christian writing has seemed to always be clouded with a lot of BS stuff instead of more pure history and such.

You are talking about a lot of physical traits. I was more talking about the story itself. For my actual source, check: http://www.religioustolerance.org/

For some reason, the site I am linking seems a lot more than the WIKIPEDIA article you linked to show me how to check sources? Just seems lol to make fun of me for a source that I've read to seem genuinely truthful(although you were assuming it was from Zeitgeist obviously), and then "prove" something by using a Wikipedia link to show me how to do it

So does anyone actually have any good books they can reference me?

I asked here because many are interested in the subject, and could provide good references. I know I could search, but I wanted an honest and well-sourced book that comes into it truthfully instead of blinded by pure atheism or Christianity(I should have said an Agnostic writing, not mentioned the atheist part).

Basically, it makes me laugh to see how the Christians on the board automatically went to attacking me and calling me out instead of being helpful, it seems as though you want to drive away followers instead of attract more by being helpful and giving me some references that you have read(You have read books for and against the topic, right?)

Just amazes me how much nicer and logical the atheist group seems to be here compared to the Christian group who are just attack, attack, attack. This is mainly why I only lurk the forum and don't post, because I'm not sure which way I lean totally but I have always really disliked the way Christians approach these discussions, very hostile and makes your arguments much weaker.

I'd be careful on Horus studies. There are claims by some ancient language experts (Michael Heiser for one) that there have been 19th century scholarship fiascos regarding comparisons between the OT and Horus.

Excerpt from Heiser (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...t=clnk&gl=us):

5 August 2009

The Bias of 19th Century German Biblical and Assyriological Scholarship
Posted by MSH under: Ancient Astronauts; Cult Archaeology; Sitchin .

Turns out even real scholars can be guilty of paleobabble when motivated by biases. They simply filter the data through a preconceived grid.

I’ve blogged before about how F. Delitzsch was influenced by racial theories of his day toward anti-Semitism, which in turn erased his objectivity about the Mesopotamian influence on the Old Testament (see, “Is Zecharia Sitchin Anti-Semitic?”). I don’t think Sitchin or others who blindly follow him are anti-Semitic. But they keep foisting exaggerated and misguided 19th century academic conclusions about Sumerian-Akkadian influence on the Old Testament on their readers. The fact is that today, in the real 21st (and 20th) century worlds of biblical studies and Assyriology, conclusions about such influence are far more tame and guarded. The issue is just more complex than 19th century scholars either knew or cared to admit. Many were propelled by racism. Here’s another article on Delitzsch and this subject. It’s introduction and conclusion read in part (my highlights):

“Our concern in this essay is not with the role of Delitzsch’s work in the history of the disciplines of Assyriology and biblical studies per se. Instead we aim to take this centennial as an opportunity to refresh the guild’s memory concerning his presuppositions and the tragic turn observable in the lectures themselves.

At the centennial of the “Babel und Bibel” lectures, our intent has been to consider Delitzsch and his method in the context of his time and place in order to gain a heuristic depth perception after the passage of a full century. Delitzsch was a brilliant Assyriologist, one of the most distinguished scholars of the time. But beyond his philological accomplishments, he also left behind a legacy of uncritical political nationalism and questionable assumptions. In this light, Delitzsch stands as a singular reminder of the importance of the way in which we relate our research to our context.”


Babel und Bund und Bias: http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoB...lBibelBias.pdf

Hey,

Great to hear! This is why I mentioned it. I want to know the truth behind a lot of these things. I know it had to be influenced somewhat by other religions, but I don't care to be completely wrong and Christianity be the first of its kind. But I would like to see something analyzing old Egyptian, and other religions before Christianity. Also the real origins of Christianity, or anything else like that that we have figured out to be likely the story behind the certain religions.

I have no problem saying sources could be completely incorrect, and I have no idea which way to look for as credible of a source as I can find on this particular subject. This is why I came to you guys, hopefully you had read a couple books or had a good idea of some books I could look into that are well sourced and as truthful as they can be on the subject.

If you can read The Epic of Gilgamesh and not see some resemblances to the Torah, idk.

Sure I assumed it was Zeitgeist,but it's true that Zeitgeist's religion history is just a result of internet circlejerking and intellectual rape of mythologies so it comes as little surprise that there are websites dedicated to this drivel.

I've read Egyptian mythology by the ton and I have also read the bible. I can give source lessons to whomever I want to on this issue when they make claims that I know very well there is no basis for.

I suggest anyone who disagrees with me pick up some Egyptian myths and read them instead of going to websites that invents fluff. They're quite decent reads and yes, they have extremely little resemblance to the bible.

That is fine

Any suggestions on a credible source that has written a good book on the topic?

Thanks for your help

Well before tackling Assyria I think you might want to study what the Jews themselves have to say. Maybe a course in rabbinic writings would be appropriate. Particularly since some rabbis are offended by scholarship by people like Delitzsch.

But what if you did turn up a parallel to the OT in some other ancient middle eastern history what would it prove?

I have to admit, having read a lot of Egyptian mythology I don't really see any notable resemblances. Sure, there is resemblance like almost any story...I'd say it as about as equal as an X-Men comic is to a Sam Spade story.

And come to think of it, Egyptian mythology is actually undoubtedly a closer match to X-Men stories than it is to the bible.

I think it is more about Egypt at that time influencing every culture around them. How much and in what ways idk.

Have your library ship this to them. The Cambridge history of Christianity (choose a volume though, there's 9)

Sure, Egypt and Mesopotamia influenced the Caanites which would later influence Judaism, which would in turn eventually influence Christianity so there is a certainly a historical link between the religions, but for example the cherubs we discussed earlier are more likely to come from Indian mythologies than any of those etc, not too mention a mix of various local beliefs (the legend of Abraham is actually believed to be a religion that has been swallowed by Judaism, and not merely a minor myth etc).

And if anybody wants to build the case of how one religion can influence another through a historical chain they could have done that all nice and correctly, no problem.

But these "Horus" things and related that float around the web are sort of annoying because of all their factual errors and how they assume resemblance (even if it is clearly invented like in the Horus case) is proof of historic linearity, and it really isn't.

You have some later Egyptian myths that could vaguely resemble Abrahamic ones, but by the times they come about Judaism is already 1500 years old.

I didn't mean to imply the cherubs were Egyptian. Just that the bible has some far out mythology in it too.

Yeah by all means. I mean in OT god sends "evil spirits" to plague people who bother his worshippers and grants a prophet the power to summon wild animals to kill people. Not too mention the real grand classic of granting a guy superhuman strength.

Well thanks for the 1 suggestion so far, I will look into that with the library. Doesn't seem like light reading though!

Any other suggestions?

I'd expect a read of The Golden Bough to form a basis for anyone trying to get a grasp on the evolution of religion. Followed, of course, with a read of Wittgenstein's comments on it which are interesting but rather built, as usual for Witt, on a philosophers view of human psychology so in some ways is 'off'.
Without this grounding a person could think they know how to make bread after watching it done from the putting it in the oven stage.