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Old 12-05-2016, 09:32 AM   #26
Dr. Meh
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I'll go with: lksajo0ia78y40whunob[0-auj'kf;albmfbpo]j0ih on coordinates pfoibuuuuuuuw'lkmba with, lv; apifs08y[uw'o and [va 098u00we['nkbm. And of course this list:

ajv[09u-]w9u
ihbanepo
;lmfdb[oa\-9js
o][mbsd
p;mbzp;


This works also:
The desperation is strong in this one. It's ok to admit you're wrong sometimes. It really is. Not a big deal.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:43 AM   #27
Cherry Raven
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
(3) Reset: This is basically starting over at the ground level and opening everything up to scrutiny. When you start to become suspicious of whether your thoughts and impulses are guiding you in the right direction, you are choosing this option.

This is a game that life forces us to participate in. Everyone is in it (there is no opting out) but some are playing it at a faster pace.
I 100% agree with your post.

I'm suspicious of my thoughts and impulses and where they are guiding me. That is true. But like I said before there is no "right" direction. So I can observe my thoughts an impulses. Watch them closely. And when the moment comes to act I won't be able to.

1. Because I don't know what the right direction is.
2. Because I'll be judgementally of the thoughts that reached that conclusion to act.

I could act on any number of thoughts or things but I obviously don't act on pure whim but I could do and be totally justified in doing so. Then I would think about the consequences of those actions and where that would lead me and Ad-finitum. But in no point during that process tells me this is the right direction. Which is why I stated there appears no path to winning. I could sit in the gutter, drunk and shout "this is the right direction." but I know it wouldn't be true.

I could be in a prison cell and tell the judge "I can't be wrong because this is the right direction for me."

I could work in a dead end office job and say the same thing.
I could be a King and say the same thing.

This is exactly why I refute MYSELF that there is a right way in the first place but that doesn't help me to act here and now. Obviously I'm going to act but in what style? The best so far is just to be an "invisible" nice guy, beta type male who does nice things for people. Try to be good moral character. Well spoken. Factual and logical in my thoughts that are expressed in my words and actions (or at least that is my aim) but I find this tactic doesn't provide any real impact. In fact perhaps its just a face I put on.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:45 AM   #28
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
The desperation is strong in this one. It's ok to admit you're wrong sometimes. It really is. Not a big deal.
I'm avoiding that guy he sounds crazy in his responses if his last response is anything to go by.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:13 PM   #29
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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I 100% agree with your post.

I'm suspicious of my thoughts and impulses and where they are guiding me. That is true. But like I said before there is no "right" direction. So I can observe my thoughts an impulses. Watch them closely. And when the moment comes to act I won't be able to.

1. Because I don't know what the right direction is.
2. Because I'll be judgementally of the thoughts that reached that conclusion to act.

I could act on any number of thoughts or things but I obviously don't act on pure whim but I could do and be totally justified in doing so. Then I would think about the consequences of those actions and where that would lead me and Ad-finitum. But in no point during that process tells me this is the right direction. Which is why I stated there appears no path to winning. I could sit in the gutter, drunk and shout "this is the right direction." but I know it wouldn't be true.

I could be in a prison cell and tell the judge "I can't be wrong because this is the right direction for me."

I could work in a dead end office job and say the same thing.
I could be a King and say the same thing.

This is exactly why I refute MYSELF that there is a right way in the first place but that doesn't help me to act here and now. Obviously I'm going to act but in what style? The best so far is just to be an "invisible" nice guy, beta type male who does nice things for people. Try to be good moral character. Well spoken. Factual and logical in my thoughts that are expressed in my words and actions (or at least that is my aim) but I find this tactic doesn't provide any real impact. In fact perhaps its just a face I put on.
The thoughts that you are using in this analysis are related to the thoughts you sense may not be leading you to your truth. When I say 'your truth', I am being purposefully vague in order to encourage you not to rely completely on the intellect. If you are at this place, the phrase 'your truth' should elicit some type of response in you that goes beyond the intellect.

It's necessary to get in tune with what you desire, not in your head but in your body/torso/heart area. Like I said, it takes will and effort since being in your head with constant analysis is the most comfortable.

You won't be able to reason your way to it, meaning you won't be able to map out what will happen if you try this or whether it is worthwhile. You can't reason yourself to bypass reason. We simply recognize we need to do it and we execute swiftly and spontaneously. It's like seeing a pretty girl across the room and trying to talk yourself into approaching her - you're going to lose that game. Sometimes it's necessary to will ourselves to act and forget about what is happening in our head.

There's nothing else for me to say and there is no other advice or information you need.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:00 PM   #30
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

OP, there are plenty of atheists who are perky and theists who are despondent. I doubt it's a matter of picking the magic system, more that you make something work.

I've found the book Sacred Depths of Nature meaningful. It is about recovering religious feeling within a scientific worldview.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:28 PM   #31
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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When I say 'your truth', I am being purposefully vague in order to encourage you not to rely completely on the intellect. If you are at this place, the phrase 'your truth' should elicit some type of response in you that goes beyond the intellect.
My body doesn't appear to have a response. I don't have a response to that. I really don't.


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There's nothing else for me to say and there is no other advice or information you need.
Thank you.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:29 PM   #32
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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OP, there are plenty of atheists who are perky and theists who are despondent. I doubt it's a matter of picking the magic system, more that you make something work.

I've found the book Sacred Depths of Nature meaningful. It is about recovering religious feeling within a scientific worldview.
I will definitely get that book.
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:11 PM   #33
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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I see the world as it is. If I am sitting on a chair then I am sitting on a chair.
you are trying to make it sound like you are above it all and without story, but you are deep into a story of how everything is meaningless and you have no direction and how you will never make it, and never know if you have made it and theres no hope etc etc etc
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:19 AM   #34
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

There are two ironclad rules about posting on the internet:

1. Never admit you are wrong
2. Never apologize

If you don't have a death grip on the above rules then you are just fodder for the wolfs. And should stay away from all internet forums and social media and just read Chinese Taoist poetry and fish for trout to pass the time. Time better spent by the way.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:28 AM   #35
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Whoops, i break those a lot.

Last edited by batair; 12-06-2016 at 01:29 AM. Reason: sorry...
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Old 12-06-2016, 06:51 AM   #36
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Old 12-06-2016, 06:59 AM   #37
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?



I always post this to the guy but it doesn't seem to help.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:53 AM   #38
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Perfect.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:43 PM   #39
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Reason Man Turning To Religion Later In Life Must Be Horrifying

The Onion.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:31 PM   #40
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

If you get no joy form anything its an unanswerable question.


Good to see you are still trucking though...gl with your peace. Not being sarcastic.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:03 PM   #41
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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.........snip............


Humans are the most functional creatures in the known universe. We're pretty remarkable.

..........snip............

From the Doctor:

Quote:
Uhh it's 100% factual. Note he said "in the known universe." If you're aware of a more advanced species, please share with the rest of us.
No. Note that it is 100% opinion. As in "most functional" and "pretty remarkable."
The same can be said of dolphins or a whole host of species of fresh-water ostracods.

Check the SEP about the difference between opinions and facts and knowledge.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:01 PM   #42
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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I get joy from books, food and sex. But there is more things I don't like in my life, a lot more, a hell of a lot more things. And there is a lot of effort that goes into those things just to read a book I fall a sleep to, 3 minutes in the bedroom and food that make my teeth hurt. So much so that it becomes not worth it. That is how I currently feel.

Thanks for that.

Peace.
Well, you should do the physical check-list

Check that you have enough vitamin-D (get some bloodwork done), vitamin d deficiency has about the same symptoms as depression, and can cause a sense of apathy and lethargy. You'll need a supplement (proper one, that a doctor prescribes) if your levels are very low, diet is not enough.

Also see to it that you get you get enough sleep and passable physical activity. Lack of these can also induce similar conditions. A poor diet (especially lots of sugar at random times) can also cause such symptoms.

I'd do that before chasing intellectual reasons at least.

Last edited by tame_deuces; 12-06-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:28 PM   #43
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Hi op, probably this is my last effort to help.

More or less, I have figured out what your problem is:

You do not forget.

Maybe it's a far-fetched idea but I'm going to say that in my opinion everything we do in life is an outcry to forget. We may not be aware of it in each and every moment of our daily lives but it is always there.

Subconsciously, the sole motivation of any of our human activities is to forget that we are going to die. That's a natural opiate. That's our opium. There are no exceptions to this rule. To think otherwise is to kid yourself.

Isn't dissatisfaction with his lot the characteristic of man in all ages and climates? Don't we pass the time of the day to forget how time passed? Zeno mentioned something like this in his 34-th post.

Imagine thinking of death perpetually, basically it means to be already dead.

Therefore, my friend: Shake it off! Switch it off! Go with the flow! You're are not special. Nobody is.

Last edited by tirtep; 12-07-2016 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:37 AM   #44
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Big fan of one 'Cherry Raven'. Meant sincerely, as anyone who's read my posts should know
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:43 AM   #45
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Hi OP,

I hear what you are saying. I feel your pain. I really do. You are not the first or last one to ask these kind of questions. In Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov novel one of the characters said: "If God does not exist, everything is permitted". I think he was wrong.
And I think he was right. Who's to settle this dispute?
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:38 PM   #46
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

The police.
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:24 PM   #47
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Good answer, batair!

But in a more serious note I would say:

Alfred de Vigny?
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:13 PM   #48
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

I feel the need to add to or clarify my response on this topic.

I see the idea of meaning at the center of the discussion of good and evil. Our ability or willingness to maintain our morality is directly associated with whether or not we believe life has meaning.

It's important to note that belief in the existence of meaning is both voluntary and involuntary. Initially, as we grow up and begin to understand life, we involuntarily believe that life has meaning and we are given that meaning by our culture and the people closest to us. Gradually, also involuntarily, our beliefs about what has meaning are either peeled or ripped away like someone removing rose colored glasses from our face and exposing our eyes to the harsh reality of what has always been. Through our will, we can voluntarily choose to continue to have faith that life has meaning but we have simply yet to discover it, or we can willfully choose to believe that life is meaningless.

If we don't bring our will into it, then we will continue to move forward and cycle between involuntary meaning and involuntary meaninglessness. This is where people exist most of the time. Our will allows us to enter into chaos where change can occur. However, it is going to be a bad outcome if we will ourselves to the decision that life has no meaning, maintain that will, dissolving our morality, and freeing ourselves to enter into chaos. Like I said, this is choosing evil and you will inevitably do harm.

In contrast, if we will ourselves to have faith that life has meaning, choosing heart over head, and we maintain that will while minding our morality (acting truthfully), we will move toward the ultimate meaning.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:44 PM   #49
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

An important point I forgot to include:

What about terrorist extremists who commit evil that seem to have a strong sense of meaning? That type of evil meaning can only be adopted after first willfully choosing that life is meaningless and destroying their morality. At that point, evil will quite easily find meaning for its expression.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:42 AM   #50
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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An important point I forgot to include:

What about terrorist extremists who commit evil that seem to have a strong sense of meaning? That type of evil meaning can only be adopted after first willfully choosing that life is meaningless and destroying their morality. At that point, evil will quite easily find meaning for its expression.
I'm not following, are you claiming that religious terrorists are nihilists?
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