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Old 12-03-2016, 07:13 AM   #1
Cherry Raven
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Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Does a belief in some form of God, religion, afterlife etc...provide a deeper unique meaning and perspective to life in comparison to that of a normal life. I define normal life as getting a job, paying taxes, getting married and having kids which I find burdensome, boring and pathetic. Human interactions in real life mean very little day to day. For example even to talk to people about anything real is almost impossible. They would rather get drunk and talk about what was on TV. I find that just as absurd as a believing in God.

Lets be honest all we are doing is hanging around until death comes. And it sure is going to come one day. Is it better to go out with bang? rather than a whimper?

Science doesn't say much on the subject. It appears to me that the human condition is a disease and no one is addressing the simple point I raise with anyone who cares to listen to me. No one has an answer and therefore any answer will do.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:07 PM   #2
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by Cherry Raven View Post
Does a belief in some form of God, religion, afterlife etc...provide a deeper unique meaning and perspective to life in comparison to that of a normal life. I define normal life as getting a job, paying taxes, getting married and having kids which I find burdensome, boring and pathetic. Human interactions in real life mean very little day to day. For example even to talk to people about anything real is almost impossible. They would rather get drunk and talk about what was on TV. I find that just as absurd as a believing in God.

Lets be honest all we are doing is hanging around until death comes. And it sure is going to come one day. Is it better to go out with bang? rather than a whimper?

Science doesn't say much on the subject. It appears to me that the human condition is a disease and no one is addressing the simple point I raise with anyone who cares to listen to me. No one has an answer and therefore any answer will do.
As a Christian, I say yes. But since you find that concept absurd, think having children is pathetic, and think human interaction is meaningless; I'd say you need some perspective to begin with.

Frankly, you sound like you may be depressed. If you feel life is that empty, I think you would benefit from some therapy and self-exploration. Not to be presumptuous, but is it safe to assume you are in your early 20s?
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:00 PM   #3
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

I'm 32 years old. I work in therapy actually. I was a Christian but failed to explain to others the logic behind it. No I'm not depressed. I love being alone and having my own time. I don't see what this has to do with my topic I posted. I have a good life.

Not all human interaction is meaningless. I feel that some subjects are important. Clean renewable energy. Prevention of disease. Curing cancer. Solving hunger in the world. All important and I'm sure many more.

But for the average person in the western world and I speak of me in particular life is not about solving those types of problems. Usually its "I've no money to make any effect change in my life or others" or "I don't have an outlet to improve my situation"

Working, paying bills and all the jazz leaves me to say so ****ing what? So ****ing what? It boils down to "I have nothing to offer the world" and the world doesn't have anything to offer me. All I can do is work in my profession and be a good citizen of the world. But so ****ing what?

Right now its coming up to Christmas where we repeat the same pattern we have been doing for the last what? 1000 years or more! Can we all grow up and tackle the problems above that I mentioned earlier? Where are all the great thinkers and movers and shakers of our time? I don't see any role models (Trump? LOL) or anyone I would inspire to be. I can go on being a good citizen of the world but whats in it for me? More of the same? No thanks! I'll pass! But that leaves me with now what do I do?
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:46 PM   #4
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by Cherry Raven View Post
Does a belief in some form of God, religion, afterlife etc...provide a deeper unique meaning and perspective to life in comparison to that of a normal life. I define normal life as getting a job, paying taxes, getting married and having kids which I find burdensome, boring and pathetic. Human interactions in real life mean very little day to day. For example even to talk to people about anything real is almost impossible. They would rather get drunk and talk about what was on TV. I find that just as absurd as a believing in God.

Lets be honest all we are doing is hanging around until death comes. And it sure is going to come one day. Is it better to go out with bang? rather than a whimper?

Science doesn't say much on the subject. It appears to me that the human condition is a disease and no one is addressing the simple point I raise with anyone who cares to listen to me. No one has an answer and therefore any answer will do.
It sounds like at one time you decided that a "normal ife" is what you wanted and once you attained your definition of it, it didn't deliver.

My 2 cents: consider that the process of identifying what you desire is not as simple as it seems. If you approach it the same way as you did in the past, you will likely find yourself in this same place in the future. Question your thoughts and go deeper into your feelings. You have to will yourself to turn inward and be truthful. Otherwise, if you never go beyond thought your only options will continue to be a sh***y life that you recognize as such, or a sh***y life that you are deluded into believing is satisfactory until you have moments of clarity like you're having now, realizing you have been living a lie.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:44 PM   #5
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

What I desire ought to be simple if I'm speaking to other free thinkers who want real change and a different pace of life. But most people are not like that. They love routine. They love a quiet life. I abhor that lifestyle. What? They actually want to live basically the same day - day in and day out, holding out for a 2 week summer holiday and days off at Christmas. What the **** is wrong with them?

My current feelings are that of "**** it." What I mean by "**** it" is I have done my best. I have waited in line. I have done all that is asked of me. It's not rewarding or interesting nor is it desirable over a long period of time. I applied for jobs in journalism and have submitted articles but no reply.

Anyway that is sidetracking I can't escape the feeling if I was more into a faith I wouldn't have these issues. I would pray to God and be done with it. I would bow 30 times facing North chanting "Allahu Akbar" in some false God but have a REAL feeling of deeper connection or mystical experience and at the same time part of a group larger than me.

That's the problem with society my voice counts for **** no matter how much I shout...echo echo echo. I'm invisible to others because I really don't matter and I understand that I don't matter. I could jerk off into a sock or save a kids life and both would be the same to me because of what I get in return. A big fat nothing and **** you come again sucker. That's the word! I am a sucker in a world I never made that is slowly making less and less sense to me. I literally feel like googling "How to make a small nuke bomb" and seeing if I could pull it off. And just for that reason alone. The more I live the more separate I feel from it because it doesn't understand me nor do I understand the social structure and its system anymore. I blame bureaucracy. I offered to volunteer. Nope! Rejected.
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:16 PM   #6
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Hes back!
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:34 PM   #7
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

You're taking the easy path. Complaining about others and society at large. That's just giving in and giving up. That's not different than everyone else. It's exactly what everyone else does! There's part of you that knows this is true, but you refuse to listen because you are being overly protective of yourself which is harmful. You have to access your will and focus on yourself.
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:35 PM   #8
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by Cherry Raven View Post
What I desire ought to be simple if I'm speaking to other free thinkers who want real change and a different pace of life. But most people are not like that. They love routine. They love a quiet life. I abhor that lifestyle. What? They actually want to live basically the same day - day in and day out, holding out for a 2 week summer holiday and days off at Christmas. What the **** is wrong with them?

My current feelings are that of "**** it." What I mean by "**** it" is I have done my best. I have waited in line. I have done all that is asked of me. It's not rewarding or interesting nor is it desirable over a long period of time. I applied for jobs in journalism and have submitted articles but no reply.

Anyway that is sidetracking I can't escape the feeling if I was more into a faith I wouldn't have these issues. I would pray to God and be done with it. I would bow 30 times facing North chanting "Allahu Akbar" in some false God but have a REAL feeling of deeper connection or mystical experience and at the same time part of a group larger than me.

That's the problem with society my voice counts for **** no matter how much I shout...echo echo echo. I'm invisible to others because I really don't matter and I understand that I don't matter. I could jerk off into a sock or save a kids life and both would be the same to me because of what I get in return. A big fat nothing and **** you come again sucker. That's the word! I am a sucker in a world I never made that is slowly making less and less sense to me. I literally feel like googling "How to make a small nuke bomb" and seeing if I could pull it off. And just for that reason alone. The more I live the more separate I feel from it because it doesn't understand me nor do I understand the social structure and its system anymore. I blame bureaucracy. I offered to volunteer. Nope! Rejected.
I still think therapy would be beneficial.

What are your long-term goals in life?
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:42 AM   #9
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Originally Posted by Cherry Raven View Post
Does a belief in some form of God, religion, afterlife etc...provide a deeper unique meaning and perspective to life in comparison to that of a normal life.
Really depends on the individual. For some yes, for some no. There's no clear cut answer.

Quote:
I define normal life as getting a job, paying taxes, getting married and having kids which I find burdensome, boring and pathetic.
So do something different. The world is large and full of possibilities.
Quote:
Human interactions in real life mean very little day to day. For example even to talk to people about anything real is almost impossible.
Get some new friends. Interact with these ones differently. I've found people will talk about nearly anything if you're clever enough to frame it in a way that has meaning for them.
Quote:
They would rather get drunk and talk about what was on TV. I find that just as absurd as a believing in God.
Find some people who share your interests.

Quote:
Lets be honest all we are doing is hanging around until death comes. And it sure is going to come one day. Is it better to go out with bang? rather than a whimper?
The answer to this question is something learned in time. You can't capture it in a moment or a question.

Quote:
Science doesn't say much on the subject. It appears to me that the human condition is a disease
Humans are the most functional creatures in the known universe. We're pretty remarkable.
Quote:
and no one is addressing the simple point I raise with anyone who cares to listen to me.
It's not really a simple point though. It's more a way of questioning life and your purpose. Is that a wise thing to do? I don't know. To me life seems more meaningful when you don't try and break it all apart.
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No one has an answer and therefore any answer will do.
Some people explore this. If you can't find an answer, or someone to talk to, go seek out other minds in other times. Literature has some amazing answers to the questions you're asking. If you haven't read all of the classics, you really haven't begun to explore human nature and the process of finding the answer to your question.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:45 AM   #10
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Working, paying bills and all the jazz leaves me to say so ****ing what? So ****ing what? It boils down to "I have nothing to offer the world" and the world doesn't have anything to offer me. All I can do is work in my profession and be a good citizen of the world. But so ****ing what?
The thrill of life is about the people you know. Find people who interest and excite and challenge you and people you interest and excite and challenge. It's really that simple. Don't quit until you do the above and all will be well.
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:15 AM   #11
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

There are thinkers who argue that science should provide moral direction, for example Sam Harris.

I'm not sold on him making it out to be about "scientific morals", it's really more re-branded utilitarianism. But based on your OP you might find it interesting.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:30 PM   #12
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

Hi OP,

I hear what you are saying. I feel your pain. I really do. You are not the first or last one to ask these kind of questions. In Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov novel one of the characters said: "If God does not exist, everything is permitted". I think he was wrong.

You said you are alone. My suggestion would it be: Find somebody to care for. It is a 50:50 percent chance it might help you to be unwrapped from this kind of convoluted fuga.

Do you really want to sound like a rebel without a cause searching for the bottom in a bottom-less pool?

Good luck!
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:09 PM   #13
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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.........snip............


Humans are the most functional creatures in the known universe. We're pretty remarkable.

..........snip............

Not just wildly speculative and arrogantly remarkable but an augment and statement that simply reeks of ignorance. There is simple is no bases whatsoever for your statement.
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:41 PM   #14
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Not just wildly speculative and arrogantly remarkable but an augment and statement that simply reeks of ignorance. There is simple is no bases whatsoever for your statement.
Uhh it's 100% factual. Note he said "in the known universe." If you're aware of a more advanced species, please share with the rest of us.
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:45 PM   #15
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Hi OP,



Do you really want to sound like a rebel without a cause searching for the bottom in a bottom-less pool?

Good luck!
I don't want to sound like that. But I lack a real alternative other than being a "nice" guy. I make little influence in the major things in life.
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:49 PM   #16
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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There are thinkers who argue that science should provide moral direction, for example Sam Harris.

I'm not sold on him making it out to be about "scientific morals", it's really more re-branded utilitarianism. But based on your OP you might find it interesting.
I love Sam Harris. I listen to his podcasts and talks often. Love his talk on Trump the most dangerous clown.

I 90% agree with him on his view about morals. But I believe there is less than 1% chance for those morals to be understood and accepted in current modern society. He might as well be telling fairy stories. Ultimately I think the only good life is a moral life but that only works if everyone else thinks the same.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:08 PM   #17
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

ToothSayer
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So do something different. The world is large and full of possibilities.
I have done different jobs and created different situations but it ultimately leads to the same sort of thing. Recently I have switched jobs and took on another job. But that's just more of the same thing. I exchange my time for money. So I started an online business with small success but nothing that I wish to pursue for long term funding. Point is whatever I do different doesn't have the impact I want.

Quote:
It's not really a simple point though. It's more a way of questioning life and your purpose. Is that a wise thing to do? I don't know. To me life seems more meaningful when you don't try and break it all apart.
To me it is a simple point. I also have a simple answer but that requires people take me seriously and listen to me. Neither of which happen often.

Quote:
Some people explore this. If you can't find an answer, or someone to talk to, go seek out other minds in other times. Literature has some amazing answers to the questions you're asking. If you haven't read all of the classics, you really haven't begun to explore human nature and the process of finding the answer to your question.
We all love Kant and Friedrich. I love philosophy maybe part of the problem in why I ask such questions in the first place when I know I need to take action. There my journey stops because I don't know what action to take.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:02 PM   #18
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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We all love Kant and Friedrich. I love philosophy maybe part of the problem in why I ask such questions in the first place when I know I need to take action. There my journey stops because I don't know what action to take.
Knowing you need to do something but not knowing what it is, that is something. It is an important part of the process. I think a lot of times we get to that point but then frustration and impatience kicks in and we turn away. When we turn away, we lose another chunk of time, so it's important to hold onto whatever ground that we gain. After holding that for a period of time, enduring through the impatience and frustration, then worry about the next step later.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:41 PM   #19
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

It's more than that to me. It's a repeating pattern. In other words I never get to a point where I can safely say "I made it" and having no doubt that I did in fact make it. Still the pattern goes on. Decision after decision. I need to be smart and knowledgeable about those decisions that lead me to that point where I can say "I made it." But I'm neither that smart or knowledgeable. I continue to learn and learn but even there I still can't say I have made it because I am always learning. And whatever I learn just keeps the pattern going. It may be a different pattern but it takes the same form as the previous ones. I also know that I can not always make the right decision based on my own stupidity or lack of knowledge or events that I can't control or through simple bad luck. And the game goes on and on and on...and the feeling above my head is that of I just can not win. There is no path to winning. And now I really don't even know what winning would look like besides that big bundle of cash. And it would need to be big to compensate for whatever the hell life is all about.

Literally fighting a losing battle and I don't even know what I am fighting for. That's just a kick in the balls right there. So there is this part of me that says lets hope there is a God and something after. For two reasons.

1. I would march straight up to that Golden throne and knock his front two teeth out. Because clearly this type of God is a joker of the highest calibre.

2. What next? Something better one would hope. But I want in on the ground floor this time around. Nothing happens until I have complete information first.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:40 PM   #20
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Literature has some amazing answers to the questions you're asking. If you haven't read all of the classics, you really haven't begun to explore human nature and the process of finding the answer to your question.
We all love Kant and Friedrich.
I think Kant is a overly rigid cock, and Nietzsche is a brave but ultimately foolish person. He went to hell and back to come to a conclusion you could figure out in a day of letting go and having some fun. These people are dickheads - they're not worth listening to. Their mental processes are interesting as an aside, but there's no wisdom there.
Quote:
I love philosophy maybe part of the problem in why I ask such questions in the first place when I know I need to take action. There my journey stops because I don't know what action to take.
I'm talking about literature, not philosophy. Philosophy is poison for a guy like you IMO.

Literature teaches you that in whatever you're foolish, many people before you have been foolish in exactly the same way. It teaches you this like nothing else can. Your existential struggles have been resolved a million times in a thousand ways. And another million, never resolved but forgotten. There is a larger game being played outside your existential reality, but you can't see it. The parts of your mind that need to be lit up to see it, aren't lit up. The best way to get to a different place is to meet new people in real life, until you find someone who sparks something emotional, intellectual, something exciting and challenging.

You seem to be stuck in a loop of measuring life by your financial success. If you had a lot more money, and could look at the world from a higher perch than the one you feel you're on, you'd feel different I think. So there are two things you can do:

- Get a lot more money
- Learn to see the world in a different way.

Those are your two functional options. The third is to continue to be miserable and lost.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:15 AM   #21
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

There are basically three paths available to you where you're at:

(1) Reassurance: This is the most common type of response you'll get from other people. It's basically either "It's going to be okay, give it time" or "It's going to be okay, just try this.."

(2) Resentment: After you can no longer accept reassurance because you realize it is false, you might feel a strong feeling of betrayal and anger. This can sweep you up, replacing healthy mindsets with damaging ones.

(3) Reset: This is basically starting over at the ground level and opening everything up to scrutiny. When you start to become suspicious of whether your thoughts and impulses are guiding you in the right direction, you are choosing this option.

If we accept option 1, we are guaranteed to go back to sleep. However, there is a diminishing effect. With each cycle, we become more dissatisfied and it takes longer to go back to sleep and escape this state of insecurity and frustration. That's when the resentment starts to take over. When this happens, any attempts from others to reassure will just fan the flame of resentment, either now or later. At this point, we have to will ourselves to reset or we risk going down a destructive path.

This is a game that life forces us to participate in. Everyone is in it (there is no opting out) but some are playing it at a faster pace.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:03 AM   #22
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Uhh it's 100% factual. Note he said "in the known universe." If you're aware of a more advanced species, please share with the rest of us.
Known Volume? Anyway, my objection still stands. See link below-

Argument_from_ignorance
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:14 AM   #23
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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Known Volume? Anyway, my objection still stands. See link below-

Argument_from_ignorance
If you want to argue bonobos or carrots are more functional, be my guest.
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Old 12-05-2016, 01:59 AM   #24
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

I'll go with: lksajo0ia78y40whunob[0-auj'kf;albmfbpo]j0ih on coordinates pfoibuuuuuuuw'lkmba with, lv; apifs08y[uw'o and [va 098u00we['nkbm. And of course this list:

ajv[09u-]w9u
ihbanepo
;lmfdb[oa\-9js
o][mbsd
p;mbzp;


This works also:
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:23 AM   #25
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Re: Does Religion provide a better solution to Existential Nihilism?

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I'm talking about literature, not philosophy. Philosophy is poison for a guy like you IMO.

So there are two things you can do:

- Get a lot more money
- Learn to see the world in a different way.
What literature? I'm genuinely interested in your response. Perhaps you have new reading material for me. Thanks

I'm running out of ideas to get a lot more money.

I see the world as it is. If I am sitting on a chair then I am sitting on a chair. I can't see that any different way or at least I don't think so. Which is why I would love to believe in a God and say "hey this chair magically appeared and now I'm sitting on it." I doubt many people would believe me. I know I would be telling lies.
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