do the christains on this forum believe - Page 4 - Religion, God, and Theology

so God lets the devil run amok until judgement day, then destroys him?this gets ever more confusing.

when does all of this just become a badly told story that some new testament hippies taking magic mushrooms just made up?

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06-08-2010 , 04:36 PM

#77

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

The Book of Revelation was written in the characteristic hyperbolic language of a popular genre in that cultural context.

I suppose it could resemble the work of "hippies" to a naive judgement.

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06-08-2010 , 05:28 PM

#78

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

Revelation 20.10
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the sulfuric lake of fire, joining the beast and the false prophet.[ There they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever.

seems pretty clear cut to me.

Heres an question for you.

Imagine being the most knowledegable and powerful spiritual being next to God and now Jesus Christ who has had free reign for thousands of years and has the power to do pretty much whatever you want.

Now image this, what would be torment for a being like that?

How about not being able to do ANYTHING at all, no evil, nothing, just locked down, that is torment.

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06-08-2010 , 05:51 PM

#79

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

so this wonderfull life giving God wants to torture the devil?

why not forgive him?

doesn't jesus preach love and forgiveness?

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06-08-2010 , 06:12 PM

#80

Hendricks433

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

pletho, splendour?

if god knows i'm going to fail then why create me in the first place? that makes no sense. why bother with the ritual when you know the result? would you continually watch pre ddtermined sport?

i am incapable of blinding accepting things which have little or no evidence for their existennce. but lets say that that is because god gave me the ability to think things through.the more i think the less i see how a loving paternal god could be possible.

my shoddy work? i'd lke to think i'm a decent chap. i treat others with respect and try to help people if i can. i respect the rights of others to live thier lives as they see fit once their choices don't impinge on the rights of others to do the same.

but because i do not accept that jesus was god i a m doomed.?he gave this logical analytical mind? therefore the fault is his in not providing enough evidence for me to accept him.

period.

Just because he knows what your going to do doesnt mean he should of created you differently. What would be the point of making billions of humans that are perfect and just worship you?

People like to point out God is Merciful but hes also a God of Wrath and Justice which is missing a huge part of who he is.

Just because you think your a decent human being doesnt mean too much. God has layed out his rules in his Word and all of us have sinned and there is only one way to overcome that sin.

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06-08-2010 , 06:26 PM

#81

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunth0807

God didn't plan our paths, we did. Well, He had a plan, but it was up to us to follow it. That is where free will fits in.

The proof is there, it is just hidden from sinners and those who don't wish to believe. That is where free will fits in. If he just showed anyone and everyone proof, He would be taking away their free will to not believe.

Seemed to work out just fine for the apostles and other's that supposedly witnessed Jesus's miracles.

What's the difference, Gunth?

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06-08-2010 , 06:51 PM

#82

Pletho

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

so this wonderfull life giving God wants to torture the devil?

why not forgive him?

doesn't jesus preach love and forgiveness?

In order to be forgiven you first have to be sorry, the devil is all evil no good or remorse whatsoever.

Also, there is no turning back for him. If someone cannot and would not if they could, and they were evil like him, the best thing to do would be to lock them up and throw away the key.

He cannot be killed, because he is a spirit being, spirit cannot die, so the next logical and best thing to do, would be to disable them.

You are going to keep on with your line of unbelief and questions I can tell, so I believe I am now wasting my time explaining things to you.

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06-08-2010 , 07:55 PM

#83

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunth0807

Stop trolling batair, post something relevant. Do you think God would want everyone to just accept someone His Son as their Savior without knowing?
There is so much confusion out there, it is best to be sure of things. God says so Himself. And i think i have accepted Jesus into my life but don't fully know it yet.

I think its relevant that person preaching for people to accept the bible hasn't does so.

Last edited by batair; 06-08-2010 at 08:04 PM.

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06-08-2010 , 08:08 PM

#84

Gunth0807

Wears Hoodies in Pizza Joints

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 9,249

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

I think its relevant that person preaching for people to accept the bible hasn't does so.

I do accept the Bible. Do i know everything about it? No.

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06-08-2010 , 08:22 PM

#85

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

so ominpotent GOD CANNOT KILL THE DEVIL?

SO HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT?

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06-08-2010 , 08:22 PM

#86

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunth0807

I do accept the Bible. Do i know everything about it? No.

Sorry but if you don't accept Jesus you don't accept the bible or Gods word (at least by most Christian standards). If your going to preach to people they should accept Christianity (which is accepting Jesus by most standards) then you might not want to be a hypocrite and do the same.

Now personal i dont have a problem with you talking the talk but not walking the walk. As there have been many historical Christians who didn't accept Jesus as their savior. But by modern Christian doctrine your not one so telling others to become one is kind of off.

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06-08-2010 , 08:24 PM

#87

Megenoita

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Agreed. Gunth, how can you say you accept the Bible when you don't accept Jesus as Lord, yet Romans 10:9-10 says you should?

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06-08-2010 , 08:33 PM

#88

Megenoita

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

so yes?

and by accident of birth most people are doomed to burn forever in hell?

Birth is not an accident-not sure what you mean. People are doomed by their rebellion.

And hell biblically is conscious torture, not what Pletho suggests in twisting the Scriptures to make Christianity more palatable (perhaps even to himself, or most of all to himself, I don't know).

Refuting Pletho and others:

http://www.pbministries.org/R.%20L.%.../chapter46.htm

General:

http://www.monergism.com/directory/s....y=0&B1=Search

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06-08-2010 , 08:43 PM

#89

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megenoita

Accident of birth.(i really don't believe i'm having to explain this).what i mean is that if you were born in saudi arabia you would be a devout muslim. if you were born 500 years ago to apache parents you would believe in spirits. and if you were born 2,500 years ago in greece you would be licking zeus's ass.

so, back to the point. If (the christian)God exists and jesus was God he has already give an an advantage to people who were born to christian parents.therefore the others are doomed to hell through no fault of their own.

can you not see this?

it's gods fault yet he is sending them to burn in hell for all eternity?

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06-08-2010 , 08:49 PM

#90

Hendricks433

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

Its not Gods fault, its our duty as believers in Christ to spread the word.

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06-08-2010 , 08:51 PM

#91

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendricks433

Its not Gods fault, its our duty as believers in Christ to spread the word.

then travel back in time to those poor unfortunate apache's who are now burning in hell...................

jesus christ..................

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06-08-2010 , 09:12 PM

#92

Gunth0807

Wears Hoodies in Pizza Joints

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 9,249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megenoita

Agreed. Gunth, how can you say you accept the Bible when you don't accept Jesus as Lord, yet Romans 10:9-10 says you should?

Because i know God exists.

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06-08-2010 , 09:18 PM

#93

Jibninjas

Stuck in a While loop

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,612

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megenoita

I did not read the second, but did glance over the first. Probably one of the worst arguments for the "eternal torment" view that I have seen.

The "eternal torment" view is pretty weak biblically at best and is down right contradictory at worst.

Please answer why God would choose to torment people for all of eternity with absolutely no redemptive value?

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06-08-2010 , 09:24 PM

#94

Justin A

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Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 9,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

You're wasting your time.

I've noticed you avoid conversing with pletho, gunth, and splendour. Probably a good idea to add Megenoita to the list.

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06-08-2010 , 09:26 PM

#95

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

so ominpotent GOD CANNOT KILL THE DEVIL?

SO HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT?

Spirit cannot die.

Ominpotence or not.

If God created spirit to not be able to die, then His Omnipotence has nothing to do with it.

Since His Omnipotence created spirit with the inability to die, then He would have to contradict His own Omnipotence.

Oh sooooooo much you do not understand.

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06-08-2010 , 09:27 PM

#96

Pletho

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Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megenoita

Agreed. Gunth, how can you say you accept the Bible when you don't accept Jesus as Lord, yet Romans 10:9-10 says you should?

No it does not! It says CONFESS him as your lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.

There is a major differnence between Accept and Confess. One is passive the other is active for starters.

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06-08-2010 , 09:27 PM

#97

Jibninjas

Stuck in a While loop

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,612

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin A

You're wasting your time.

I've noticed you avoid conversing with pletho, gunth, and splendour. Probably a good idea to add Megenoita to the list.

I have had a few convo's with Meg, and they don't go anywhere very quickly( and that is not meant to be a shot at him), but there are a couple topics that i just cannot let alone. Hell and Open Futurism. Two doctrines that I feel very strongly about.

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06-08-2010 , 09:29 PM

#98

Gunth0807

Wears Hoodies in Pizza Joints

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 9,249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

I will admit i have been pretty passive aggressive when it comes to this.

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06-08-2010 , 09:31 PM

#99

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

Please answer why God would choose to torment people for all of eternity with absolutely no redemptive value?

He has no choice our free will puts us and keeps us in our torment.

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06-08-2010 , 09:37 PM

#100

Pletho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megenoita

Sorry sir, but quoting error filled commentary does not work with me. Maybe others though.

There is so much known evidence that and knowledge within Christianity that you can easily be proven wrong about the word Hell.

Death is non conciousness anyway.

So please dont pretend to know something you do not know and them quote someones elses error filled commentary to back up what you do no understand.

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