On the contrary, i think it means that anyone can be saved with faith.

juts another way of saying believe what the bible says or you will "burn in hell".

God didn't create you this way, your ancestors did. He did not create your faults at all. He knows if you are going to pass His test, but He is not controlling whether or not you do, that is up to you.

Can you explain how you are incapable? Do you not have His Word? I can get you a copy.

You will suffer because of your shoddy work, not His. He has provided His Word to you in so many ways, but you do not put forth effort to learn and accept it.

Believe me, the only reason God chose the childen of Israel had to do with the Christ line. Within their line there was a woman whom God knew would have a great heart of believe, so much of a great heart of believing that she would believe the words the angels spoke to her about having a child without concieving, this believing in her heart allowed God to place within her the christ by freewill decision and believing on her part.

The children of Israel were by no means the greatest believeing people, they always, always fought against God.

To be really accurate Jesus Christ lines has within it many gentiles.

The gentiles, meaning those who were not of Israel, had many, many people with great believing hearts for God.

The only reason the bible focusing on the nation of Israel is because they as a geaneolgy were the Christ line.

Before men were created and life set into motion within Gods heart he devised a plan to have a family of spiritual children and the method he chose that was the fairest way to build this family was freewill believing.

So, at that exact moment, when God chose the method for eternal life, and GOd knowing the future of all mens hearts and what they would believe, knew who would and who would not believe when spoken to.

Those he knew would believe were called by him before the foundations of the world, then time had to play out.

Freewill was never overided, just known ahead of time who would choose to believe.

The difficult part is that people think that everyone has a good heart and everyone should live forever. Gods idea of a good heart is one that believes in Him. He chose the method to have this spiritual family be built, which was believing.

This is a spiritual family that will live forever, this all has to do with something much greater than the physical realm.

pletho, splendour?

if god knows i'm going to fail then why create me in the first place? that makes no sense. why bother with the ritual when you know the result? would you continually watch pre ddtermined sport?

i am incapable of blinding accepting things which have little or no evidence for their existennce. but lets say that that is because god gave me the ability to think things through.the more i think the less i see how a loving paternal god could be possible.

my shoddy work? i'd lke to think i'm a decent chap. i treat others with respect and try to help people if i can. i respect the rights of others to live thier lives as they see fit once their choices don't impinge on the rights of others to do the same.

but because i do not accept that jesus was god i a m doomed.?he gave this logical analytical mind? therefore the fault is his in not providing enough evidence for me to accept him.

period.

Yeah but why let people be atheists, why let them condemn themselves and lose more souls to the devil, god does not(should not) place dice, many people are going to hell because he cant make himself shown, or give some proof so the devil will win most souls and at the end it would be a lot less people on heaven, when the devil is banished and as most non believers die a second time and cease to exist, it seems pointless to let so much people be born and enter life to make a choice in these short life time which is but a drop of sand in a huge beach of time, about how they would spend eternity, why not gives us eternity as default, what is the endgame...yeah i know i should not question, but god made me that way i guess.

so , god set me and other non believers up to fail.

why can't you see this?

if god knew at the beggining who would accept him and who would deny him, why carry on with the charade?and having to let time pass is bull****.

is he not omnipotent?

All men are created with the same elements that are required to have eternal life. A mind, and a heart within that mind.

Believing comes from the heart and all men can choose to believe.

The problem is that most do not choose to believe. Of course they have got to hear the truth, they have got to have a heart that is receptive enough to allow someone to talk to them so that the truth can be presented to them, before they can make a decision on it. Most are not receptive because the advesary has set up life and manipulates life to discourage people from believing in God. He even does this by inspiring Christians that do not have the accuracy of the word to do things that turn people off to GOd and the things of God.

This is what most people deal with, all the stupid things CHristians say and do that make a mockery of God and the truth.

you and i shall burn for having the temerity to question the word of mathew mark luke and john.

God set things in motion with Adam and Eve, he has no control over the decisons that are made by man and their procreation.

Everyone that divides God's Word correctly is going to sound the same.

Now you are saying God should prevent people from having kids. Isn't that taking away free will? Why are you so hellbent on figuring you are going to fail? Succeed!! You have way more help then you can imagine.

You don't have to blindly accept. You just have to let Him know you want to see, and start following His Word. Your eyes will be opened. Like Pletho said, it really isn't that hard. But it will be impossible if you just don't try at all.

The more you understand God, the more you see and understand His Love.

You respect the lifes of others to let them life how they want to live? Do you not see the world falling apart? That is what happens when people just live the way they want to live. You are disrespecting God and His people who truely want what's good by respecting others wishes.

"There's still time to change the road your on."

The problem with this logic and one that bothers me is that Hitler could have repent with all his heart before dying and truly believe in Jesus Christ hence he becomes part of the family, and in the other hand a poor Jewish girl who never believed in Jesus as the savior suffers,gets burn to ashes and is sentence to eternal damnation. If God gave us our sense of justice this doesnt compute in my head at all.

God chose the fairest method for eternal life. Which was believing.

You can believe, so you cant pass the failure on to Him, because you are the determining factor, you are stubborn and just are fighting the way things are set up.

If you have no eternal life, its only because you chose to resist the method of recieveing eternal life, and instead decided to complain about how it all was set up.

yet he knows what decisions they will make?

so i ask again, why carry on with this charade? why not just grant eternal life to those that accept withotu having to go thorugh this exestence first?

please answer the question this time.

Yes and no.

If he was born of the advesary meaning a seed of the devil, which he might have been he could not have.

If he was not then yes he could have, thats the love and forgiveness of God.

Its beyond your mindset to grasp how someone so evil could have been forgiven.

But God is not stupid and has a eagles eys few on all of life and all peoples hearts, so he does not make mistakes. You may think he does but thats only because you do not see the big picture nor understand spiritual principles.

It was not God's Choice that many people become atheists. But God has given man free will to not believe or disobey. He wants us to have free will, but He wants us to use it correctly. If God has given us free will to have children, then taking that away is taking away free will. Do you not see that everything is how it has to be?

I think most the world will have to disagree with you on that He does not make Himself shown. He is perfectly hidden from those who choose not to be shown. But reveals Himself perfectly to those who wish to be shown and live righteous.

no, actuallly i don't see the world falling apart at all. i see humanity taking steps (baby steps, but steps nonetheless)to become more peacefull and less hell bent on self destruction.

where once we were ruled by dictators (kings) , now a lot of the worlds population have democracy.

where once we died yougn (average age 40), now due the wonders of modern science lots of people live twice as long.

where once we settled disputes with war and only war now we talk.

i'm not saying this is universally true but it's a lot better than it was at any time in history.

One step forward, two steps back.

Simple..... Freewill choice to love is the key.

If you were to have a child a baby, would you rather that baby decide to love you or be forced to love you?

If you are forced to love someone then its not true love, its love by force and its not pure.

People believe and confess Jesus Christ as their lord out of freewill, at least they are supposed to.

Its the goodness of God that leads a man to change his heart.

The only way to know the goodness and love of God is to get into the word of God and learn of God accuratly to the point that you begin to believe and make some decision based on His word, then you begin to see that its real and that God exists because He always performs His word when its walked upon and believed.

you should write a book. call it "3 million and one ways to say it's in the bible""

Well yeah life is beautiful and i really would like to believe that god made all the nice things in the world for us to cherish and enjoy, but then we must realized that god also lets (or creates?) things as viruses, cancers, AIDS, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, wars exist. You have to create both or he lets the devil make the bad things, either way he lets them be.

Death did not exist before man's sin. Study Genesis.

Well, its is............ I am enjoying this conversation, at least you are not freaking out like most people.

Nope, those things are corruptions and mutations of the original creation brought on by the devil who was given lordship of the universe by Adams disobedience, originally roses did not even have thorns.

The devil legally obtained control of these things, meaning Adam freely handed it over to him and now all men are born in slavery physically and mentally and are blinded to the truth under the devils domain. But they can be freed and released from this slavery and blindness if they want to be. Most dont though.

Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.


Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith (perfect believing) that is in me.