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Crisis of faith Crisis of faith

08-22-2011 , 11:31 AM
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@Doggg - You do realize that I've heard those arguments, or said that same thing to myself dozens if not hundreds of times, right?
Of course you have, but you came on here feigning ignorance of these answers, that anybody of reasonable intelligence could work up.
And I know there are much more intelligent people posting here daily, who could come up with better answers than I can, if they so chose.
That's why I added what I did at the end of my post, because it appeared to me that you are no longer seeking answers, but rather justification for a decision you already made.

You don't see it now, and that's ok.
I didn't see it either.

Once you have emotionally invested yourself in this kind of decision, and identified with it, it will take a literal move of God to change.
And that will come, because try as you might to deny it, reject it, or suppress it, the Holy Ghost dwells inside of you, and will speak to you throughout your life.
And whether 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, you will receive your own special revelation of God's love, apart from your parents' understanding, and you will find your own church.
Call me patronizing, or arrogant, or whatever you like, but once you are called, chosen, sanctified, and saved, you are not of the world, and you will never fit in with those who are not of your spiritual lineage and 'bloodline,' as it were.
You will never see as they do.

I pray that you receive your special revelation a lot sooner than I did mine.
I f'd up my life completely before I realized that true wisdom is found in those scriptures, and that the way of the world is emptiness, loss, confusion, foolishness and hopelessness.

God bless you on your journey.
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08-22-2011 , 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
Of course you have, but you came on here feigning ignorance of these answers, that anybody of reasonable intelligence could work up.
And I know there are much more intelligent people posting here daily, who could come up with better answers than I can, if they so chose.
That's why I added what I did at the end of my post, because it appeared to me that you are no longer seeking answers, but rather justification for a decision you already made.

You don't see it now, and that's ok.
I didn't see it either.

Once you have emotionally invested yourself in this kind of decision, and identified with it, it will take a literal move of God to change.
And that will come, because try as you might to deny it, reject it, or suppress it, the Holy Ghost dwells inside of you, and will speak to you throughout your life.
And whether 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, you will receive your own special revelation of God's love, apart from your parents' understanding, and you will find your own church.
Call me patronizing, or arrogant, or whatever you like, but once you are called, chosen, sanctified, and saved, you are not of the world, and you will never fit in with those who are not of your spiritual lineage and 'bloodline,' as it were.
You will never see as they do.

I pray that you receive your special revelation a lot sooner than I did mine.
I f'd up my life completely before I realized that true wisdom is found in those scriptures, and that the way of the world is emptiness, loss, confusion, foolishness and hopelessness.

God bless you on your journey.
You ****ed up your life not because you abandoned religion but because you made dumb choices. I am an atheist and my life is not ****ed up. Blaming lack of belief for your ****ty choices is pretty pathetic. Take some responsibility for your own actions and stop making excuses that because you left GOD or that you didn't believe in him your life was ****ty. One does not need to believe in God to be good and that's a fact.

I've noticed this with many religious people, even those who were pastors/priests, one day they were caught cheating or lying or whatever bad they did and of course none of them admitted that they did wrong, they all either blamed SATAN or claimed that they lost Jesus and that's why they did all those bad things.. PLEASE... ridiculous...

Last edited by gskowal; 08-22-2011 at 11:53 AM.
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08-22-2011 , 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
the Holy Ghost dwells inside of you, and will speak to you throughout your life.
☑ perpetuating a superstition
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08-22-2011 , 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by VP$IP
☑ perpetuating a superstition
the holy ghost/god = ego

http://youtu.be/-j8ZMMuu7MU
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08-22-2011 , 11:59 AM
I personnally went through a similar experience during college and as I started graduate school in physics. You have to remember that religion is a human creation that attempts to bring us closer to God. There is no need to decide which religion is right or wrong. You do need to recognize that your development is important and that there may be important messages in any religion. The assumption of God is logically sound. Make that assumption and you cannot go wrong.
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08-22-2011 , 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
Of course you have, but you came on here feigning ignorance of these answers, that anybody of reasonable intelligence could work up.
And I know there are much more intelligent people posting here daily, who could come up with better answers than I can, if they so chose.
That's why I added what I did at the end of my post, because it appeared to me that you are no longer seeking answers, but rather justification for a decision you already made.

You don't see it now, and that's ok.
I didn't see it either.

Once you have emotionally invested yourself in this kind of decision, and identified with it, it will take a literal move of God to change.
And that will come, because try as you might to deny it, reject it, or suppress it, the Holy Ghost dwells inside of you, and will speak to you throughout your life.
And whether 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, you will receive your own special revelation of God's love, apart from your parents' understanding, and you will find your own church.
Call me patronizing, or arrogant, or whatever you like, but once you are called, chosen, sanctified, and saved, you are not of the world, and you will never fit in with those who are not of your spiritual lineage and 'bloodline,' as it were.
You will never see as they do.

I pray that you receive your special revelation a lot sooner than I did mine.
I f'd up my life completely before I realized that true wisdom is found in those scriptures, and that the way of the world is emptiness, loss, confusion, foolishness and hopelessness.

God bless you on your journey.
You're precisely the kind of person religion preys upon. You're now using it as a crutch because you can't stand on your own two feet.
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08-22-2011 , 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RLK
I personnally went through a similar experience during college and as I started graduate school in physics. You have to remember that religion is a human creation that attempts to bring us closer to God. There is no need to decide which religion is right or wrong. You do need to recognize that your development is important and that there may be important messages in any religion. The assumption of God is logically sound. Make that assumption and you cannot go wrong.
It all comes to one decision, are you willing to believe in something for which we have no evidence of existence? I don't, hence I don't accept claims of any theist out there and I don't see a reason to believe in God, and that's atheism.
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08-22-2011 , 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
Of course you have, but you came on here feigning ignorance of these answers, that anybody of reasonable intelligence could work up. And I know there are much more intelligent people posting here daily, who could come up with better answers than I can, if they so chose.
That's why I added what I did at the end of my post, because it appeared to me that you are no longer seeking answers, but rather justification for a decision you already made.
If this is what you have gotten from my posts, then you are seeing only what you want to see and distorting it to fit your own ideology.
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08-22-2011 , 12:46 PM
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You're precisely the kind of person religion preys upon. You're now using it as a crutch because you can't stand on your own two feet.
Well, let's talk about that.
Throughout human history, the majority of mankind has communed with God through prayer, prophets, worship, etc.
A study recently came out concluding that man has a genetic disposition toward belief.
If this is true, then we can state that a fully healthy human being, mentally, and emotionally, is a believer, a man of faith.
That if you are not, then you are aberrant.
Therefore, those who choose to not believe, would in effect be negating something that would complete their human-ness.
It is no wonder, to me, that many of the atheists here attack believers personally, demonstrating a vitriolic temperament, because non-belief will cause a person to be symptomatic.

Who really has the crutch?
Who is it that has a synthetic belief system, designed to approximate belief in God?
Who is it that proselytizes vehemently, with great passion and fury, against the original, authentic foundations?

I say that I walk on two human legs.
I don't hobble and limp around on artificial legs, spitting and cursing at those who have the faith to be fully human.

HG wells said that he was not a believer, but as an historian, he could not deny that Jesus Christ was the center of history.

Men of faith always have been the greatest, most famous, most inspiring souls that ever lived.
They have inspired billions by the example set by their faith in their lives.
If you live in a country where there is freedom of religion, it is likely you cannot turn a corner without seeing a cross, house of worship, or some other emblem of faith.
Man honors faith.
Man reveres great faith.
It takes ballz to live by faith, and not by sight.

Faith is what has inspired billions.
God is everywhere, and you would have to be blind, and somehow dysfunctional, not to see His greatness, not to perceive what He values and glorifies in man-- which is faith in Him.

I say that I walk as a man should.

We are not code.
We are not vulcans.
We are human, and God speaks to our humanity, being made in the image of Him.

If anything, many have abandoned the very thing that can complete them, and heal them, as humans, as people.
They take up the crutches.

No wonder they froth at and gnash their teeth at men and women of faith, because we walk with our heads held high, with boldness that inspires others to better themselves, and love their neighbors.
We gorge on a natural, fat steak, while the atheist eats his tofu, and wonders why he is impoverished, fatigued, and perishing.

Don't talk to me, pal, about crutches.
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08-22-2011 , 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
Well, let's talk about that.
Throughout human history, the majority of mankind has communed with God through prayer, prophets, worship, etc.
A study recently came out concluding that man has a genetic disposition toward belief.
If this is true, then we can state that a fully healthy human being, mentally, and emotionally, is a believer, a man of faith.
That if you are not, then you are aberrant.
Therefore, those who choose to not believe, would in effect be negating something that would complete their human-ness.
It is no wonder, to me, that many of the atheists here attack believers personally, demonstrating a vitriolic temperament, because non-belief will cause a person to be symptomatic.

Who really has the crutch?
Who is it that has a synthetic belief system, designed to approximate belief in God?
Who is it that proselytizes vehemently, with great passion and fury, against the original, authentic foundations?

I say that I walk on two human legs.
I don't hobble and limp around on artificial legs, spitting and cursing at those who have the faith to be fully human.

HG wells said that he was not a believer, but as an historian, he could not deny that Jesus Christ was the center of history.

Men of faith always have been the greatest, most famous, most inspiring souls that ever lived.
They have inspired billions by the example set by their faith in their lives.
If you live in a country where there is freedom of religion, it is likely you cannot turn a corner without seeing a cross, house of worship, or some other emblem of faith.
Man honors faith.
Man reveres great faith.
It takes ballz to live by faith, and not by sight.

Faith is what has inspired billions.
God is everywhere, and you would have to be blind, and somehow dysfunctional, not to see His greatness, not to perceive what He values and glorifies in man-- which is faith in Him.


I say that I walk as a man should.

We are not code.
We are not vulcans.
We are human, and God speaks to our humanity, being made in the image of Him.

If anything, many have abandoned the very thing that can complete them, and heal them, as humans, as people.
They take up the crutches.

No wonder they froth at and gnash their teeth at men and women of faith, because we walk with our heads held high, with boldness that inspires others to better themselves, and love their neighbors.
We gorge on a natural, fat steak, while the atheist eats his tofu, and wonders why he is impoverished, fatigued, and perishing.


Don't talk to me, pal, about crutches.
so much dumb **** it's a waste to even try to take time to reply to all this nonsense...
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08-22-2011 , 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
We are not vulcans.

We gorge on a natural, fat steak, while the atheist eats his tofu, and wonders why he is impoverished, fatigued, and perishing.
Wait...are you saying that I'm not a Vulcan and that if I question some of the beliefs I was taught as a child I have to give up steak?

I'm not sure where I'm going to end up, but I can tell you that I will never again be a part of any faith that is as much about hate and fear as it is about love and the human spirit. I've had enough hate and fear to last me a lifetime.
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08-22-2011 , 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gskowal
It all comes to one decision, are you willing to believe in something for which we have no evidence of existence? I don't, hence I don't accept claims of any theist out there and I don't see a reason to believe in God, and that's atheism.
This is incorrect.
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08-22-2011 , 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SGT RJ
Wait...are you saying that I'm not a Vulcan and that if I question some of the beliefs I was taught as a child I have to give up steak?

I'm not sure where I'm going to end up, but I can tell you that I will never again be a part of any faith that is as much about hate and fear as it is about love and the human spirit. I've had enough hate and fear to last me a lifetime.
Im pretty sure that people like Doggg speed up the process of leaving the religion behind...
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08-22-2011 , 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RLK
This is incorrect.
care to elaborate what and why?
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08-22-2011 , 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
Well, let's talk about that.
Throughout human history, the majority of mankind has communed with God through prayer, prophets, worship, etc.
So?

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A study recently came out concluding that man has a genetic disposition toward belief.
If this is true, then we can state that a fully healthy human being, mentally, and emotionally, is a believer, a man of faith.
That if you are not, then you are aberrant.
Therefore, those who choose to not believe, would in effect be negating something that would complete their human-ness.
Citation to study? In any case, having a genetic predisposition to something is irrelevant. We have genetic predispositions to do a lot of things that we conscienciously inhibit because our intellects tell us so.

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It is no wonder, to me, that many of the atheists here attack believers personally, demonstrating a vitriolic temperament, because non-belief will cause a person to be symptomatic
I didn't attack you personally. I made a blunt statement that religion preys on people that are at the bottom.

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Who really has the crutch?
You.

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Who is it that has a synthetic belief system, designed to approximate belief in God?
Dunno

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Who is it that proselytizes vehemently, with great passion and fury, against the original, authentic foundations?
Me

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I say that I walk on two human legs.
Say anything you want.

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I don't hobble and limp around on artificial legs, spitting and cursing at those who have the faith to be fully human.
I'm human, and I don't need religious fantasy to live a good life. You apparently do.

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HG wells said that he was not a believer, but as an historian, he could not deny that Jesus Christ was the center of history.
Ok. That's what HG Wells thinks. Good for him.

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Men of faith always have been the greatest, most famous, most inspiring souls that ever lived.
That's, like, you're opinion, man.

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They have inspired billions by the example set by their faith in their lives.
The masses are pretty easy to manipulate. They've also been inspired into bigotry and to commit horrible atrocities against humanity.

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If you live in a country where there is freedom of religion, it is likely you cannot turn a corner without seeing a cross, house of worship, or some other emblem of faith.
You say this like it's a good thing.

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Man honors faith.
Man reveres great faith.
It takes ballz to live by faith, and not by sight.
Yeah, it's balls. Now I get it.

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Faith is what has inspired billions.
You already said that. I've already addressed it.

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God is everywhere, and you would have to be blind, and somehow dysfunctional, not to see His greatness, not to perceive what He values and glorifies in man-- which is faith in Him.
You already said that I rely on sight instead of faith, but now I'm blind? And the state of the world definitely demonstrates that god is everywhere. How could I not see that?

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I say that I walk as a man should.
OK.

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We are not code.
We are not vulcans.
We are human, and God speaks to our humanity, being made in the image of Him.
I agree we're humans.

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If anything, many have abandoned the very thing that can complete them, and heal them, as humans, as people.
They take up the crutches.
That's throwing the crutch aside. "Abandoning" it, as you say. That's a good thing.

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No wonder they froth at and gnash their teeth at men and women of faith, because we walk with our heads held high, with boldness that inspires others to better themselves, and love their neighbors.
I'm anti-theist because I see the harm religion does to the world. The benefit to people liek you that require mental gymnastics to live a better life is far outweighed by the atrocities and bigotry caused by religion.

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We gorge on a natural, fat steak, while the atheist eats his tofu, and wonders why he is impoverished, fatigued, and perishing.
My favorite food is a good steak.

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Don't talk to me, pal, about crutches
Gladly.

Last edited by fds; 08-22-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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08-22-2011 , 01:23 PM
I would say, because I have experienced it and so many I know have experienced it, that there is a sort of 'dialectical atheism' if you will, or a process that many many people follow, each in their own way, and transition from theism to atheism/agnosticism (the differences between these two don't much matter IMO). I realize you are not there yet. But I believe you will get there and are too far along on realizing the overwhelming nonsense of religion to stay in this quasi questioning state for ever.

My main effort ITT would be to demonstrate how atheism, quite contrary to people's beliefs, is a really enjoyable place to be where one can experience transcendent joy, happiness, meaning, love, empowerment and just about any adjective assigned to other endeavors. My own experiences have seen a strong sharpening of these experiences as I moved from religious to pseudo religious to non religious and I consider it the most important transformation of my life
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08-22-2011 , 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by uke_master
My main effort ITT would be to demonstrate how atheism, quite contrary to people's beliefs, is a really enjoyable place to be where one can experience transcendent joy, happiness, meaning, love, empowerment and just about any adjective assigned to other endeavors. My own experiences have seen a strong sharpening of these experiences as I moved from religious to pseudo religious to non religious and I consider it the most important transformation of my life
+1. While I'm hard on theists because I believe religion is evil, I'm one of the most peaceful people, and I'm completely at ease with my life. I'm happy and loving and feel "spiritual" every time I gaze up at the stars. The term atheism has such a negative connotation because the only thing religion is good at is marketing, but atheism is as peaceful and relaxing as it gets. At least for me.
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08-22-2011 , 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KingOfAces
I am about to sound like an atheist which I am not yet, but I am in the process of becoming one. I still believe in God somewhat but I live my life by classifying things into Good and Bad. I was also a firm believer until I came to know about things I was not told by my elders.I don't think my life or my after-life(which doesn't exist imo) has anything to do with God.



You are right, a loving God would never do that. A loving God is concerned about the well being of human beings, but unfortunately the Human race is suffering.

We live a very good life, what about the people in third world countries? Do they not believe in him?Why do people die of horrible diseases? What wrong did they do? Why does a new born minutes after birth? Any answers?

Are people with faith happier than the atheists? No, they are not. We have that illusion because there are more in number than the atheists.

Nothing happens after death, the whole idea that after-life is decided by how you conduct yourself in your lifetime is BS. It is made up by people who didn't know that Earth revolves round the Sun and believed otherwise.
How intelligent they were? Not much imo. If they were not so insightful, should you believe the BS they said? NO.




Is there God? What did he do to make us believe that he is there? Nothing.
There is a very strong chance that there is no higher power. Generation after generation we believed what our elders had to say. Did any of us ever see god? No, no one ever did. We cannot use Bible as a proof for anything. It was written many thousand years ago. How can we believe people who wrote bible were more intelligent than us? Why not believe what we see.... The truth is that earth is a large petri dish, with optimum conditions for life. No higher power gave this life to us, and none can take it. We should be good humans not for God but for our fellow beings.
So what you're saying is that you actually never knew Jesus?
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08-22-2011 , 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Online Veteran
So what you're saying is that you actually never knew Jesus?
obviously , he wasn't born in the times that Jesus lived(if he actually lived)...
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08-22-2011 , 01:51 PM
08-22-2011 , 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RLK
The assumption of God is logically sound.
Please, show us.
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08-22-2011 , 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Doggg
A study recently came out concluding that ...
This was the funny part.
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08-22-2011 , 02:24 PM
Grunch: It gets better. It gets better.
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08-22-2011 , 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SGT RJ
Although part of me is distressed at the idea that the only end game would be deciding that there is no God. I'm not sure I'm near that point, or at least not yet.
Thats not necessary the only end game. I dont believe in God but i wouldn't go as far as saying i know there is no God. Idk can be the end game. Its a big mysterious universe, who the **** knows whats going on.
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08-22-2011 , 03:43 PM
" Why would a loving God condemn anyone to a literal eternity of torment for a mere lifetime of mistakes - even a truly evil person would be evil for what, 70 years? 80? 90? And for that, an eternity of torture? Why would a loving God do that?
"

SGT RJ, surely you have been taught the key Christian concepts of forgiveness and redemption. All your sins are instantly forgiven once you genuinely and truly ask for forgiveness for them. In theory even after a lifetime of sinning, even a non-believer can be completely forgiven on his death bed.
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