well, if there are boundaries they are beyond murder and child rape, ****, those are practically encouraged. I think I recall reading that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the holy spirit, which I will now commit

- I declare that the jesus was only able to perform his "miracles" because he was an agent of satan.

see, that is obviously waaay worse than raping children, gosh I hope I don't get smoted tonight.

True.

Not for me to say obviously who is or isnt a Christian. But in attempting to answer anyway I would say there is no boundary or type of act that should result in one no longer being a Christian other than renoucing God but not sure that qualifies as a heinous act in your eyes.

butcho,

I have no idea about Hitler one way or the other but no question lots of Christians have commited horrible acts.

I also am bothered by anyone and certainly Christians who deign to speak as to is a real Christian. It is not our place to judge anyone.

Tame,

The answer is yes on both counts. What are you getting at? Why are you asking?

There is no single act a Christian cannot do--act being a physical sin.

I'm guessing he's asking because of all the times that Christians have claimed that *insert horrible person here* was not "really" a Christian due to all of the evil things he/she did.

Hitler is the most common example. The idea that he might have been a Christian gets dismissed out of hand by just about every Christian on this forum. They argue that he had to have been an atheist, as a Christian would have never done all of the naughty things that Hitler did.

It's not that they aren't really a Christian, it is more like some actions people do in the name of Christ just go against what He taught.

Atheist or Christian... Hitler was an evil man and both peoples denounce him - both sides don't want him, lol.

Instead of calling him atheist or Christian, I just call him superstitious.

This isn't true. There are MANY atheist worldviews which do not call him evil (since evil doesn't exist), he just went against what most people consider right and wrong. There is no universal law to call him evil, though. He's just different. This is one of the greatest flaws of atheism. It is so inadequate it can't call Hitler evil (and account for it without being incoherent). Of course atheists don't realize the internal incoherence of their own worldview so they'll call him evil, denounce him, etc., not realizing they're demanding a universal moral law they deny. But really there is no possible atheistic worldview that can definitively call anyone or anything evil--it cannot be established; it can only be opinion.

Im going to keep saying this because you keep making this bad point. You as a Christian cant say Hitler was absolutely evil either.


For one what Hitler did, genocide, is not absolutely wrong according to the bible. If God order Hitler to do what he did, like he has in the past, then it would not only not be evil it would have to be good.

For another judging someones heart as evil is only supposed to be within Gods powers not humans. On this one if you ignore the first argument you could get away with saying his actions are evil i guess but you cant judge him (his heart) as absolutely evil. Who knows maybe he had a death bed deal and hes up in the puffy clouds looking over us right now.

I agree with this - I don't think evil and good exists outside of God. But most atheists on the board will say there is something wrong with murder. I agree, it is inherently inconsistant with their world beliefs.

This is one reason I converted, because otherwise I would logically have to be a moral relativist. I would tell people that rape is wrong but not be able to support it logically.

You cant say rape is logically absolutely evil in all circumstances throughout time now. God might tell you to find a virgin and have you force yourself on them in an unwanted marriage.

If God has ordered this and you agree this would be rape then it cant be absolutely evil, it would have to be good in some cases.

I fully support batairs points, it is ironic to draw your objective stance against genocide from a god who supposedly carried out several of them, while micromanaging his favorite tribe; not to mention drowning the entire world.
Beyond that, your claim that an atheist cannot call Hitler evil is just wrong.
So what if I don’t have an objective standard to compare too? By my standards what Hitler did was evil, and there is nothing inconsistent about sticking to that.
You say I need to have an objective standard, I say objective standards do not exist, and that the best we can do is well reasoned thought on the subject.
Why is this an automatic win form you?

Are our preferences really invalidated just because they cannot be grounded in objective criteria? I have no objective standard for preferring t-bone steak over lamb chops, but I do.

God would never perform something intrinsically evil nor would he order someone to perform an intrinsically evil deed. In fact, he cannot - it goes against his very nature.

There are actions that have always been and always will be evil.

The biblical God has ordered men to kidnap women and force those women to marry them. I call that rape. If you dont think the above is rape then when God ordered rapist to marry their victims and keep raping their force wives maybe that will work. If you want to say rape was the best option back then or if you want to say God would never do that now because of the new covenant, ok. But you cant say rape is an unchanging absolutest moral evil. It was biblically good sometimes.