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Christians view of neanderthal man? Christians view of neanderthal man?

07-25-2010 , 01:41 PM
I know most christians dont believe in evolution, but I am curious on what is their(your) take on neanderthal man and other humanoid but not **** sapiens sapiens species? What are they to you? Do they have a soul(If you think they werent human) and so on?
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 03:17 PM
The Bible mentions evolution in Genesis.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 03:50 PM
Unless you got evidence that the Neanderthal type is reproductively incompatible with contemporary types, they were "of a kind" with modern man.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 04:03 PM
The position of Christian "Creationists" is that Neanderthal man is a human being.


http://www.ufpe.br/biolmol/

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a reanalysis of Boule’s work showed his extreme evolutionary bias in the reconstruction of Neandertal Man. After the reanalysis, some scientists stated that if you dressed him up, gave him a shave and bath, and sent him into society, he would attract no more attention than some of the subway’s other denizens (see Recreating the faces of our Neandertal cousins, below). Neandertal Man was then reclassified as **** sapiens neanderthalensis, just a particular type of modern man.
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The discovery of a human hyoid bone (related to the larynx or voice box) prompted many evolutionists to state that Neandertal Man had speech and language ability equivalent to modern man.7
Trinkaus and Shipman8 say:
‘Although no one had explicitly predicted what a Neandertal hyoid would look like, few were really surprised when it turned out to be a slightly enlarged version of a human hyoid and nothing like an ape hyoid ... . Many anthropologists came to believe that Neandertals could have spoken any modern human language, whatever their accent may have been.’
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A Neandertal baby was found buried in Israel with a red deer jawbone next to its hip indicating that Neandertal Man at least had the capability for symbolic behavior.10 A Neandertal toddler was unearthed in Syria at the bottom of a 1.5 m (5 ft) -deep pit, with a flint tool resting at about the spot where the infant’s heart had once beaten. This discovery is considered ‘the best evidence yet of Neandertal burial practices’.11 Furthermore, pierced animal teeth, probably worn as pendants, and ivory rings were discovered with a Neandertal fossil in a French cave in 1996.2,12 Moreover, it is now known that Neandertals made their own, relatively sophisticated ornaments and tools.2 This suggests ‘a high degree of acculturation’.12
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At one time archaeologists did not believe Neandertals used spears, but this idea has been given the shaft by the finding of aerodynamic wooden spears used by the supposed ancestors of Neandertals.2 Furthermore, it has been discovered that Neandertals crafted a variety of stone tools and deadly, stone-tipped spears, showing an aptitude often attributed only to modern humans.2,13,14
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John Shea, who featured in the PBS series, states that this new information contradicts the idea that Neandertals were markedly inferior.2
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A very recent report now finds that Neandertals used stone implements in more flexible ways than previously thought, which gave them access to a more varied diet of meat and plants.15,16
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It has recently been concluded that Neandertals lived side-by-side with modern humans in the Middle East for 100,000 years of evolutionary time and made virtually identical stone tools.17 Hybrids of Neandertals and humans are known from a number of areas,8 including a recent find of a child in Portugal.18 It is not difficult to conclude that Neandertal Man was totally human, and that modern humans and Neandertals likely amalgamated in Europe.
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...The team that made the DNA discovery believes this new result will usher Neandertal Man back into the human fold.
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It has been suggested that Neandertal Man fashioned a bone flute, an obvious human accomplishment. This deduction is strongly disputed, claiming that the holes in a hollowed-out bear bone were punctured and gnawed by the teeth of an animal, possibly a wolf.21 However, the two complete and two partial holes in the picture shown are linear and very round, making the carnivore theory suspect. Besides, there are about 30 partial bone flutes that have been found in Europe late in the Neandertal period and younger.22
(Note: If you see the pictures of the flutes, it's humorous that it'd be suggested an animal did it.)

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A new article published in the journal Nature now claims that Neandertals, or possibly modern humans, lived in northern Russia during the Ice Age.25 It had been widely believed that no humans lived in this region until 14,000 years ago in evolutionary time. Based on a mammoth tusk bearing cut marks, likely made from stone tools, the earliest date of man living in this cold territory during the Ice Age was pushed back to 40,000 years. The significance of this is that ‘adaptation to northern climes requires high levels of technological and social organization’,26 strongly suggesting that Neandertal Man, if he was the tool user, was fully human.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs...neandertal.asp
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 04:31 PM
We have Neanderthal DNA. Now we just need somebody to make a clone from it.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Our House
We have Neanderthal DNA. Now we just need somebody to make a clone from it.
I would bet that this "neanderthal", if raised in this modern day world, could understand everything you are capable of.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-25-2010 , 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunth0807
I would bet that this "neanderthal", if raised in this modern day world, could understand everything you are capable of.
Why wouldn't they? Our brains are smaller. They could communicate, make tools, survive in the Ice, make musical instruments, paint, etc. They were on a technological par with us until shortly before we killed them off. And some of us "have" Neanderthal DNA.
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The cave-bear flute, however, is about 82000 to 43000 years old and is clearly a Neanderthal creation.

Last edited by like yeah?; 07-26-2010 at 12:00 AM.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Go QQ
I know most christians dont believe in evolution, but I am curious on what is their(your) take on neanderthal man
Are you suggesting that modern man evolved from neanderthal man? We didn't, and that is not a Christian view, it is a scientific fact. I'm not sure how that changes your question.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gunth0807
The Bible mentions evolution in Genesis.
also mentions Lebron James going to the Heat this year.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Butcho22
also mentions Lebron James going to the Heat this year.
I lol'ed
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 08:41 AM
I dont see how them being able to survive and understand everything in modern day has anything to do with it.(if they are intelligent aliens and/or we make smarter-than-us robots they will still be able to do so, but they wont be humans)
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Originally Posted by spadebidder
Are you suggesting that modern man evolved from neanderthal man? We didn't, and that is not a Christian view, it is a scientific fact. I'm not sure how that changes your question.
I added it, because initially I intended to ask about other species like **** Erectus and othe predecessors of **** Sapiens and not only about neanderthals( i only mentioned them as ''other humanoid but not **** sapiens sapiens species" though)
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 09:20 AM
Question for Christians:

If you consider Neanderthals fully human (soul), how far back do you have to go before you wouldn't consider someone human?

Hõmo Ergaster? Hõmo Habilis? Australopithecus Afarensis?

Note that scientific names are discrete entities that don't really exist in the real world. A species gradually turns into another species, and you call it a different species when you have good reason to believe that a population either couldn't, or wouldn't want to breed with its predecessors from x years ago. But obviously the difference between any parent and its offspring (normal) in any given generation in that time wouldn't be noticeable.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HowardGrind
I lol'ed
As did I
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SABR42
Question for Christians:

If you consider Neanderthals fully human (soul), how far back do you have to go before you wouldn't consider someone human?
It's humans as far back in man's lineage as you care to look. No ancestral type of modern man is reproductively incompatible with him.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Concerto
Unless you got evidence that the Neanderthal type is reproductively incompatible with contemporary types, they were "of a kind" with modern man.
Do you have evidence they can interbreed. As far as i know its still up it the air.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by batair
Do you have evidence they can interbreed. As far as i know its still up it the air.
There have been DNA studies that show interbreeding. One recently came out of the Max Planck Institute.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Concerto
There have been DNA studies that show interbreeding. One recently came out of the Max Planck Institute.
Ive read a bit about that, i thought it was still controversial.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by batair
Ive read a bit about that, i thought it was still controversial.
Maybe so. Their brains were 20 percent larger fwiw.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 12:17 PM
As you can see from this thread OP, the leading view is denial of the bleedingly obvious and then blind acceptance the minute the Bible may not be contradicted.

Skepticism need not apply.

(We do have the nice moderates ofcourse, but I take it this thread is not about them).
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Concerto
It's humans as far back in man's lineage as you care to look. No ancestral type of modern man is reproductively incompatible with him.
If you're going to say that God created humans basically as they are now, I'm not interested in discussing this with you.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-26-2010 , 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Go QQ

I added it, because initially I intended to ask about other species like **** Erectus and othe predecessors of **** Sapiens and not only about neanderthals( i only mentioned them as ''other humanoid but not **** sapiens sapiens species" though)
It is interesting that hoemoe (sp) is censored in this context.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote
07-27-2010 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Question for Christians:

If you consider Neanderthals fully human (soul), how far back do you have to go before you wouldn't consider someone human?

Hõmo Ergaster? Hõmo Habilis? Australopithecus Afarensis?

Note that scientific names are discrete entities that don't really exist in the real world. A species gradually turns into another species, and you call it a different species when you have good reason to believe that a population either couldn't, or wouldn't want to breed with its predecessors from x years ago. But obviously the difference between any parent and its offspring (normal) in any given generation in that time wouldn't be noticeable.
We would only have the categories of "human" and "ape" or "chimp" or w/e, so if we determine it is a human, it is a "modern" human, since all humans are in our view, and if it's an ape, it's a non-human. There is only 100% human and 0% human on our view.
Christians view of neanderthal man? Quote

      
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