Translation: "I am too scared to engage logical arguments. I prefer to indulge in self delusion"


Sure, whatever you like, knock yourself out. Glad you agree that christianity (and every other religion) is a scam.

pretty difficult since he did not exist

Takes a lot of faith to say Jesus did not exist.

Jesus Christ at least exists as much as the words on a page which say otherwise.

Translation: "I am too scared to engage logical arguments. I prefer to indulge in self delusion"

I disagree with you. Christianity to Me means giving a **** about others, taking risks, and putting skin in the game. Anyone can talk. It's a religion where Christ paid the price for others who weren't Jewish, but who were good people, to be given a new way to Heaven. Be baptized, state that Jesus is the Lord of Heaven, and acknowledge that you are a sinner.

When I was baptized in 2014 I didn't make it more complicated than it needed to be. I'm a sinner and Jesus is the Lord of Heaven. It's an honor religion. Isn't about being a "good guy" or "polite" or whatever you call it. To Me it means if someone is down, lend them a hand. How they do when you help them out matters, but don't kick them to the curb.

Wherever there is truth, Satan and his deceivers will spread their lies.

Is there a thread on this here? Can you recommend books? It's one of the big questions that fascinates me and I feel like there could be a strong answer to, but I don't know what it is.

I mean, obviously Christianity has been incredible for European social cohesion, from the local to the state level, and had a strong civilizing effects on its people and culture. On one level you could argue that was what enabled Europe to develop all of its math and science and philosophy and technology.

On the other hand, Christianity probably created a prolonged dark ages, prolonged serfdom, and cloistered thought.

Very few historians accept this hypothesis.

I'd be willing to bet on the following:

You give a **** about others and are willing to lend a hand because you're a good person. Religion need not enter the fray of consideration. If religion disappeared tomorrow and its influence on you were erased, you'd still be a good person.

And don't be bashful. Its far better to say " I give a **** about you because I'm a good person" than "I give a **** about you due to my blind faith in the existence of some extraordinary being (despite the lack of evidence) and were it not for this blind faith, I really wouldn't care about you."

Also its a terrible thing to assume that birth automatically qualifies you as a sinner.

As to OPs question, yes Christianity is a scam. To any that might argue on this point, I invite you to first consider this:

What is the difference between a religion (Christianity) and a cult (Scientology)? I'm yet to receive a compelling answer to this aside from nothing.

Oh, you have testable evidence that jebus and god exist? Go ahead and show it.

I have not yet made claims about Jebus or God. The fact that you've been so wrong so repeatedly throughout this thread in your accusations suggests a rather severe mental incapacity of dealing logically with information. I suppose it's of no harm to me to continue watching in amusement.

But I will now make a claim about Jesus. According to the overwhelming majority of historians, Jesus is a historical person that existed.

So no evidence then? Fine, did not think you would deliver. Oh, and you omitted god completely

Carry on claiming I am acting illogical while acting illogical.

I'll carry on watching your poor kindergarten style in amusement while there is not a shred of evidence of the historical jebus, just anecdotes (which you, as a fighter for logic, should understand is not evidence at all)

For someone who continuously indulges in irrational rants, you're very arrogant. Those are not traits that combine well.

Sure, I'll provide evidence.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/01/149462...makes-his-case

http://www.livescience.com/13711-jes...ence-hold.html

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-be...storical-Jesus

Will do! You're taking a position that's contrary to the majority of historians. In the absence of a very solid reason to do this, I expect this will end poorly for you. If that's an illogical thing to claim, then I'll be happy to be illogical.

Your turn. You've claimed "there's not a shred of evidence." Go.

90 percent of historians agree that there was a man named Jesus claiming repentance of sins the only thing questionable about Jesus's existing was his god like abilities. Christianity is not a scam what about the millions of charity's and ministry's that you don't hear about that make the world a better place. Real Christianity is about serving others and being selfless no wonder most people don't like that everyone wants to be rich and elevate there social status by worldly means. Some people say religion starts wars and kills people yet the biggest genocide and most killings come from principle were taught to stay away from things like pride and greed envy have killed more then anything hitler killed millions because of pride and greed to conquer and slaughtered people of religion. Everyday street kids across the world in gangs kill eacth other and sell eacth other drugs just for cash. With out religion I think the world would be even more dangerous billions of people practice various religions usually keeping there minds focused on peace and love without such direction definitely see high crime and more wars.


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Sure, politics and power are massive factors that lead to war while religion is a comparitively small factor. But the fact that religion is a contributing factor at all, no matter how small, is reason enough to abandon it.

Everything in the world has negatives and positives you might as well abandon everything. the problems Not with religion the problems are with the people. same argument with guns its not the gun it's the person behind it.


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And do the positives of religion outweigh:
-faith driven conflict
-genital mutilation
-the abandonment of women's rights regarding abortion
-the concentration of wealth among the elite (see Catholicism and Scientology)
-faith schools which, by definition, abandon fact in favour of faith
-prejudice against homosexuals?

Ok guns wars gang wars cartel wars school shooting movie theatre shootings. Positives to have a gun protection if used properly and hunting that's about it should we get rid of guns?

Alcohol fights drunk driving car accident addiction liver failure poor judgement crime etc should the world Abandon alcohol only positive is it feels and taste good


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And yes the positives of religion out way the bad there is knuckle heads on all walks of life


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Do you really think **** sapiens would engage in genital mutilation in the absence of religious influence?

You say that people are to Blame, not religion. But in the case of genital mutilation and a good deal else, the problem is most assuredly religion. As per the title of this thread, its a scam and should be done away with.

Dude you seem a bit crazy on this genital mutilation issue. And yea with or without religion people will do crazy things to eacth other like shoving millions of women men and children in gas chambers. Problems not religion bro it's people


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Yes, for exactly the same reasons people endanger their children by not getting them vaccinated and why people freak out about GMOs and gluten. The more appropriate label for these types of behaviors is probably to say that these are "socio-cultural effects."

I think it is true that religion is not a requirement for moral action. I think it is an open question if all societies would be improved by a lessening of influence or power of religion in that society (I think this is probably false).

Why?

"Cult" is one of those labels that people use when they stop thinking about a subject. For instance, isn't it true that for many people being in a cult has had a positive impact on their lives?

The most important difference between "cult" and "religion" as the words are normally used is basically the socially shared perception of legitimacy. Religions are seen as having at least some tacit legitimacy. Cults are generally not. Which of course doesn't have any bearing on whether claims made by either are true or not. But the distinction is sociologically useful in other ways, and some of those ways are relevant at least to the discussion about whether or not religion is a net negative across all possible societies.

I don't think we've had a thread directly on this topic, but others here would remember better than I. As for books, I think this kind of global evaluation of religion is pretty tough - mostly I think it just ends up being speculation with small bits of evidence pointing one way or the other.

But, if you're interested, here are a few books. I think Big Gods: How Religion Transformed Cooperation and Conflict, by Ara Norenzayan, is excellent. He uses cultural evolution arguments to claim that modern religions is one of the factors that led to the rise of large societies. I've had Cruel Creeds, Virtuous Violence: Religious Violence Across Culture and History sitting on my to-read shelf for a while, and that is an attempt by an anthropologist at looking at a particularly large segment of it.