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Can Atheists Give An Argument For Not Diverting The Train Can Atheists Give An Argument For Not Diverting The Train

09-11-2014 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I never claimed that my decision to not divert the train wasn't subjective. It most certainly is. As for my consistency, I backed up my reasoning by saying that I don't want to get into the business of valuing lives. That was the whole point. Objectively, I feel that 5 lives are more valuable than 1 (given no other information). But I have no way of knowing if the one guy who would be killed had a life more valuable than the 5 put together.

This whole started when I said that I could easily imagine a scenario where lives are not equal on a 1 for 1 basis. Perhaps if I know that the one guy on the track is a future Nobel prize winner, while the 5 on the other track are bums who are likely to add more net misery to the world then I WOULD divert the train. But without this information available, I wouldn't want to get involved in the decision to divert.

I disagree and am somewhat shocked that BTM2 (and yourself?) are trying to twist what I'm saying and trying to represent that thinking minds cannot reach an objective conclusion about these things and that they must be subjective. You need to make a lot of twists and turns with what I'm saying and even then take some of it out of context. I don't think that's right and I do think these (most?) decisions can be arrived from an objective standpoint.
It might be easier if you take into account that an objective valuation is absolutely meaningless.

Contract killers are cool?
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09-11-2014 , 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naked_Rectitude
This is interesting, I never contemplated this too much, but I always thought that people naturally went out of their way to save children. Not that I'm disputing your claim, but I'd love to hear a little more of this, do you have anything relevant that would confirm this?
It is easy enough to understand. Imagine if you will that you are on a mountain expedition with 10 friends and an expert guide. A stone block falls down towards you, and you can push two people out of the way. Who should you save?

People do have different values, pretending otherwise is just a lie.

Human tribes tens of thousands of years ago could never have valued their children as highly as their hunters or women capable of bearing children; a good hunter or such a woman could ensure the survival of the tribe. A child would didn't even have no particularly high survival odds given particular external threat that required action.

This isn't to say people are not altruistic in crisis. Indee the opposite is often true, in many such situations people don't panic. They cool down, act rationally and help people. However the key element is control and time. Reduce those, and this behavior gets more and more reduced. A classic case is Lusitania vs Titanic. The Titanic took two hours to sink, the Lusitania 15 minutes. Aboard the former you had orderly displays and many stories of heroism. In the latter you had a general lack of order and a high number of egotistical actions (after the sinking you saw many displays of altruism again, however).

Last edited by tame_deuces; 09-11-2014 at 02:21 AM.
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08-13-2015 , 09:55 AM
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