Atheists in the US can't be moral - it's official - Page 5 - Religion, God, and Theology

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Atheists in the US can't be moral - it's official

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06-21-2013 , 08:45 PM

#101

ganstaman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Why is he asking ?

I already answered that after the word 'since' in my post, a word that denotes an explanation of what came before is following.

Quote

06-22-2013 , 02:20 AM

#102

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Do you doubt that illegitimacy rates have risen whilst religiosity has declined ?

Whether I accept or reject the claim is irrelevant. You made a claim and are responsible for providing evidence for it.

Quote

06-22-2013 , 09:11 AM

#103

Cwocwoc

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Whether I accept or reject the claim is irrelevant. You made a claim and are responsible for providing evidence for it.

If we are to have a reasonable discussion then you have to accept the responsibility to accept reasonable statements.

Quote

06-22-2013 , 10:30 AM

#104

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

If we are to have a reasonable discussion then you have to accept the responsibility to accept reasonable statements.

If we are to have a reasonable discussion (even though it's quite clear we won't), it's reasonable to expect reasonable reasons to think certain claims are reasonable.

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06-22-2013 , 11:52 AM

#105

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

If we are to have a reasonable discussion (even though it's quite clear we won't)

That's entirely up to you.

Quote

06-22-2013 , 12:15 PM

#106

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

That's entirely up to you.

I'm going to hold to a reasonable expectation of reasonable explanations.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 12:42 AM

#107

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

I'm going to hold to a reasonable expectation of reasonable explanations.

But you are not doing that. It is not reasonable to doubt that "illegitimacy rates have risen whilst religiosity has declined". No-one reasonable would demand an "explanation".

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:04 AM

#108

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

No-one reasonable would demand an "explanation".

Expecting factual claims to be supported is perfectly reasonable.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:17 AM

#109

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Expecting factual claims to be supported is perfectly reasonable.

If it's taken to extremes in obvious cases, as you have done here, then it's wumming. I repeat it derails sensible discussion.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:38 AM

#110

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

If it's taken to extremes in obvious cases, as you have done here, then it's wumming. I repeat it derails sensible discussion.

Not as it pertains to the original claim. This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

The UK is full of illegitimate children. It was pretty rare when people were more religious. Fact.

Is not this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

It is not reasonable to doubt that "illegitimacy rates have risen whilst religiosity has declined".

Are you willing to admit that the two claims are not identical, and not very close?

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:51 AM

#111

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Not as it pertains to the original claim. This:

Is not this:

Are you willing to admit that the two claims are not identical, and not very close?

Can't you even see that they are saying the same thing ???? The first is more rhetorical that's all. Obviously the UK is not literally "full" of such people there's just a lot more of them about these days.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 11:23 AM

#112

Doggg

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I read an interesting study a few days ago where self-proclaimed atheists were given statements to read, and when they read out statements like 'I hereby challenge God' or 'I challenge God to strike down my son,' they exhibited very high levels of stress.

What is more interesting to me is the question of how many atheists still consider themselves superstitious, and if there really even is such a thing as an atheist, especially since most atheists (in the US, at least) are in many respects just backslidden Christians.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 11:33 AM

#113

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggg

What is more interesting to me is the question of how many atheists still consider themselves superstitious, and if there really even is such a thing as an atheist, especially since most atheists (in the US, at least) are in many respects just backslidden Christians.

To many atheism is a faith. They harbour a secret admiration for the serpent. Some of them even keep pet snakes.

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06-23-2013 , 11:35 AM

#114

starvingwriter82

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Every time I read a Crocwoc thread, I wonder what it's like going through life with 70% of what you say and think making no sense to anyone, and the other 30% of what you say and think being disagreed with by everyone.

My best guess is he's just not self aware enough to notice? Not sure.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 11:45 AM

#115

asdfasdf32

True Facts

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggg

Link?

Quote

06-23-2013 , 11:55 AM

#116

Doggg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

Link?

Link

and another

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06-23-2013 , 12:03 PM

#117

fretelöo

Mean? Me?

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,219

The hypothesis about the evolutionary benefit of having atheists around is pretty brilliant.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 12:15 PM

#118

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,560

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggg

Yes, a belief in some unlikely supernatural power from people who don't believe in some unlikely supernatural power is a bit silly isn't it.

It strikes me that atheists who demonstrate stress when reciting sentences like that are probably just responding to a lifetime of environmental influences rather than some residual or deeply buried belief. After 46 years of exposure to Christianity, even I get a twinge at those moments. Strangely, I don't get a twinge when I recite the same sentences but substitute words like 'Allah' or 'Imhotep' for 'god'.

Quote

06-23-2013 , 12:49 PM

#119

Cwocwoc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

It strikes me that atheists who demonstrate stress when reciting sentences like that are probably just responding to a lifetime of environmental influences rather than some residual or deeply buried belief. After 46 years of exposure to Christianity, even I get a twinge at those moments. Strangely, I don't get a twinge when I recite the same sentences but substitute words like 'Allah' or 'Imhotep' for 'god'.

That's because you have had 46 years of Christianity. This is what atheists fail to appreciate. Their values are informed by the religion to which they have been exposed in their society. It is probably impossible to create a genuine atheist society free from religious influence.

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06-23-2013 , 04:19 PM

#120

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Can't you even see that they are saying the same thing ????

Nope. One makes a claim using absolute quantities and the other makes a claim about changes.

Quote

06-24-2013 , 09:37 AM

#121

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Do you doubt that illegitimacy rates have risen whilst religiosity has declined ?
It is not going to be possible to have a very grown up discussion with your attitude.

Correlation =! Causation

Quote

06-24-2013 , 09:49 AM

#122

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggg

Link

and another

It would be interesting to see what would happen if you ran the generic term god through a specific religion like "I dare Jesus to.." or "I dare Allah to..". It could be the generic idea if god(s) could be, at least implicitly, in the minds of atheists but not a specific god.

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06-24-2013 , 03:32 PM

#123

kurto

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

To many atheism is a faith. They harbour a secret admiration for the serpent. Some of them even keep pet snakes.

I'm sorry... the more he writes the more this can't be for real. Its like a person trying to act like Splenda pretending to be an atheist but not fooling anyone.

Splenda would always write foolish things like "some of them keep pet snakes" as meaningful evidence of something though it challenged the brain to try to follow her reasoning down her rabbit hole.

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06-24-2013 , 03:36 PM

#124

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Correlation =! Causation

The UK is full of illegitimate children. It was pretty rare before the US landed on the moon. Fact.

Do you doubt that illegitimacy rates have risen since the US landed on the moon ?

Grow up.

Quote

06-24-2013 , 03:37 PM

#125

kurto

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Ha. Wow.

I've never met (an american adult) atheist who wasn't completely aware of the fact that their society and much of their culture/values/etc. have been developed under the heavy influence of Christianity.

I literally have never met a single atheist who would 'fail to appreciate' it.

I would love to see more of this strange universe cwoc lives in where atheists worship the devil, are completely ignorant of their Christian culture, etc. Unfortunately, I think this universe is largely internal and cannot be visited by others except through his prose.

Quote

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