I forgot the secret name part of the Temple ceremony. When you do the ceremony, they give you the name that you will be called in the after-life. You are to keep it secret from everyone except God. Unless you're a married woman, where you are required to tell your husband your new name.

What they don't tell you is that every male who goes to the Temple on a particular day gets the same name. Same with every female.

Here's another summary of the Temple ceremony, without the transcript: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon514.htm

Just have to say that I love the show "Big Love" and I find the Mormon religion fascinating. Great conversation here, ty gusmahler for your contribution, I know that I have learned a lot.

2nd that.

Also, what is this show "Big Love" people keep talking about ITT?

It is a show on Showtime that is about a polygamist Mormon family in UT. It's awesome.

It's actually on HBO. And the 4th season is running now.

And it's not just a polygamist family. True to the stereotypes, there is a polygamist cult living someone in rural Utah that serves as the primary "Bad Guy" in the show. The protaganist is Bill Hendrickson, a guy who was kicked out of the cult and went on to live a normal suburban life in the Salt Lake City suburbs. He was like a typical Mormon until his wife got sick. The woman who nursed his wife to health eventually became his second wife. Bill later added a third wife. (This is all before the show started).

So the premise of the show is that Bill lives in a quiet Mormon suburb, running his own business, while secretly being married to three women and having 9 kids, all living in three houses next door to each other.

A really quality show.

Another thing I don't like about the LDS church is the emphasis on tithing. Again, my only experience is growing up in the Catholic Church. There, my parents filled out an envelope and put in what they were comfortable giving.

In the LDS church, you are expected to give 10% of your income to the Church. To enforce it, at the end of the year, you are to meet with your local bishop to conduct a tithing settlement, where you attest that you've given the 10% they want. If you don't give 10%, you can't go to the Temple and other things might be withheld from you. Of course, they don't know how much you make, so you can just lie, but lying isn't very Christ-like is it?

Here's an article the church published last year in its official magazine:
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hi...004d82620aRCRD

The LDS Church is very serious about money. That article is by a Mormon apologist, but some of it is scary regardless.

The other unique thing about the LDS church is, of course, polygamy. I really don't know how big of a deal it is today. It certainly was around when the church was formed and was removed only so that Utah could become a state. Even today, if a male becomes a widower and gets remarried, he's sealed in eternity to both wives. But it is not allowed in the mortal life.

Despite all the excuses the leaders used to make for polygamy (only done so that widows wouldn't be alone or that there were many more women than men because of men dying in the trip to Utah), the basic fact is that polygamy came about because Joseph Smith was horny and liked younger women. So he'd sleep with them. But in order to not make it adultery, he married them first. It didn't matter that some of the women were already married or the age of the girls (he married girls as young as 14). And all this was before the journey to Utah, so those excuses don't ring true.

Much more about polygamy here: http://mormonthink.com/polyweb.htm

Another unique aspect is the missionaries. Other religions have missionaries, but I don't think they have to it to the extent the LDS church does.

When a male turns 19, he's expected to go on a mission. It's "optional", but its greatly encouraged. Basically there's a lot of societal pressure to go on a mission. Women aren't required to go on a mission, but if they want to, they can go at age 21.

What is a mission, the missionaries are sent somewhere to teach the gospel. They go door to door and talk to people at the church. They are the stereotypical young guys in white shirts and ties, with name tags, riding bikes around town, passing out the Book of Mormon.

What you may not know about them:

• The missions are self-funded. The parents (or the guy himself) pay for all expenses. This includes living expenses and two meals a day. (Missionaries typically have dinner with an LDS family.) In some wards, members subsidize housing costs, but this isn't the case everywhere.
• The missions last two years. Pretty much without exception. I've even heard that, if your parent dies during your mission, if you leave to go to the funeral, you aren't allowed back.
• You have no choice where you go on your mission. It could be somewhere close (regionally). It could be a foreign country that speaks a different language. In that case, you're expected to learn the language via immersion.
• During the mission, you'll be sent to various areas in your boundaries. You're given two days notice before you have to leave.
• You're not allowed to watch TV or play video games during the mission. You're supposed to be immersed in the Gospel.
• And here's the thing that gets to me: you're not allowed to phone your family! You get two calls per year, and it's typically Mothers Day and Christmas. You can write to them and email them, but no phone calls. (I have no idea how this is enforced, though). I thought this was absurd the first time I heard this--when a missionary was excited because he got to call his Mom. I wondered why that's so exciting and he told me it was because he hadn't spoken to his family since mothers day. For a religion who's main selling point is "Families are forever," this is a piss poor way of encouraging family togetherness.

The worst part is something I found today. It is a teaching manual used by men who teach the young men (ages 12-17):

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...003a94610aRCRD

I assume you're talking about the Book of Abraham, which is provably made up. Here's the thing: the vast majority of members (I'd guess over 90%) don't know the Book of Abraham was proven fake. The church encourages members to do no research about the church and only look at church approved manuals when studying religion. Thus, there'd be no reason for any true believing Mormon to even know about the true origin of the Book of Abraham.

Of course, this (reading only church approved manuals and books) screams "thought control" and is one of the more cult-like aspects of the church.

Good points.

Similar for mainstream Christianity, in my experience. I participated in years of group "Bible Study", but eventually discovered the truth about how the "Holy Bible" was assembled from anonymous and different sources at different times, and then altered to match the prevailing philosophy, such as the invention of the doctrine of the "Holy Trinity".

It was exhilarating to be finally free from that oppression, but the poisoning of guilt and fear does not go away immediately.

Time we have Wasted on the Way.

Wasted on the Way - Crosby, Stills & Nash

Look around me
I can see my life before me
Running rings around the way
It used to be

I am older now
I have more than what I wanted
But I wish that I had started
Long before I did

CHORUS:
And there's so much time to make up
Everywhere you turn
Time we have wasted on the way
So much water moving
Underneath the bridge
Let the water come and carry us away

Oh when you were young
Did you question all the answers
Did you envy all the dancers
Who had all the nerve

Look round you know
You must go for what you wanted
Look at all my friends who did and got what they deserved

CHORUS

And there's so much love to make up
Everywhere you turn
Love we have wasted on the way
So much water moving
Underneath the bridge
Let the water come and carry us away
Let the water come and carry us away

I don't know about Bible study. But growing up in a Catholic household, I never recall hearing anyone say I shouldn't research non-approved manuals. In fact, the catalyst to me becoming atheist as a teenager was because I read an Encyclopedia article that was discussing the different authors of the books Moses was supposed to have written.

Mormonism is different. They have a monthly magazine where they actually publish articles saying you shouldn't read non-approved materials. They have Sunday School every week where they will occassionally tell you not to read non-approved materials. They encourage people to stay uninformed.

In addition to this, they have also baptized Hitler

Hi, similar to OP i was brought up in the Mormon church but am no longer religious. My family is still in the church. I dont know heaps about it but there are a few things id like to add


see below

I have many very good friends who are Mormon. It may be different in some parts of America, (utah i guess) where there are a lot of Mormons in relation to non Mormon. But here (Australia), while they often socialise with each other (because of all the activities they have constantly being organised), they have lots of social links outside of their religion. Also i think they would prefer going to activities with other church members where there will be no drinking/smoking/sex etc which is against there beliefs which is fair enough imo. Just like i would prefer to sleep in on Sunday then go to their church to be surrounded by stuff i dont want to do or believe in.

fwiw i often see missionaries at my parents house and most of them are just really nice people.

Not calling your family sucks, they write letters like a few times a week though.

To your statement in bold, i spose the idea of living away from your family and not talking to them for 2 years does seem contradictory to encouraging family togetherness. One of the things i do like about this religion however is that they teach how important your family is. Not sure if you know many Mormon families but if you do, im sure you would agree that they do a pretty good job at implementing the "family togetherness" thing


Interesting, i wasnt aware of this but it wouldnt surprise me if true.

Also re KOLOB. afaik its a star/planet near where god lives. Not where he was born.

Also the thing about if someone in your family dies while you are on a mission so you fly back for the funeral then you are not allowed back is wrong.

am also open to questions but dont know helluva lot

Until 1966, the Catholic Church had a list of books that you were not allowed to read. It is called Index Librorum Prohibitorum.

lol, man you'll believe anything. If you think this is true then i have a bridge to sell you!

Maybe this will mean something to you. Maybe not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history

The Bible exists in multiple manuscripts, none of them autographs, and multiple canons, none of which completely agree on which books have sufficient authority to be included or their order.

A four gospel canon (the Tetramorph) was first asserted by Irenaeus, c. 160. The many other gospels that then existed were eventually deemed non-canonical and suppressed.

The Hebrew bible is not a single book but rather a collection of texts, most of them anonymous, and most of them the product of more or less extensive editing prior to reaching their modern form.

While the authorship of a number of the Pauline epistles are largely undisputed, but there is no scholarly consensus on the authors of the other books of the New Testament.

The first casualty was the Creation story itself, and by the early 1800s "no responsible scientist contended for the literal credibility of the Mosaic account of creation."

The historical reliability of the Acts of the Apostles, the primary source for the Apostolic Age, is a major issue for biblical scholars and historians of Early Christianity.

Not really. Personally I never really cared about calling my family twice a year. It never really bothered me or just about every other missionary I knew. I wrote my family every week for about 6 months and then less and less frequently until I wrote them about once a month. You can write them once a week by email ( where there is the internet), and hand write them every day if you want.

This is a really good thread. I compare it a thread of the same kind of a poker pro.

How did mormonism explode only in Utah?

How come it hasn't exploded anywhere else?

What percentage of mormon church goers actually don't really believe but just go through the motions?

Growing up in southern Idaho, which is pretty much Mormon central. I would say their biggest recruitment tool is the sweet Mormon pxxsy.

lol I lived in Twin Falls for a while

Because Mormons founded the state. Mormons make up about 50 some odd percent now. It has been declining as immigration into the state becomes more prevalent.

I guess you mean why isn't Mormonism as prevalent in other places as in Utah/Southern Idaho? Because Mormons didn't found those places. The country of Tonga is 32% percent Mormon though.

This one is harder to pinpoint. Affirming the faith is a strong part of Mormonism so it isn't easy to pinpoint people who are just "going though the motions"

What you may not know about them:

Pretty much true. The funds go into a super fund so that lower cost missions subsidize higher cost missions and higher income countries subsidize lower income countries

Two years from males. A year and a half for females. No one knows why the difference. Honestly no one knows. I had an extension on mine of a month and a half. If your parents die of course you are allowed back. They are pretty liberal with that stuff. You can stay if you want and not come back, it isn't like anyone except some a**hole would complain about that.


True. I got picked from the Cuyo region of Argentina, where they speak Spanish ( surprising how many people don't know this). The only reason I didn't fail Spanish in high school is because my teacher liked me.


The boundaries are true. The areas depend on how concentrated the area is. In large cities with a lot of members and a lot of churches it might be only a few dozen blocks. I was put in charge of what would be considered counties in the US every once in a while. The notice thing depends on how the mission operates. Sometimes a week, sometimes hours depending on the circumstances.

Yep, no TV, no video games. I had to one kick missionaries ass because all he wanted to do was play video games all day. No girlfriends, no flirting (supposedly), no entertainment. Normally you get one day off ( known as P day or preparation day). This day isn't just to do anything. Cleaning the apartment is mandatory, as well as emailing family, washing clothes, cleaning up,and shopping. If there is extra time ( there usually is), then we hit up museums, played soccer, had BBQ's, took trips ( I went to Mount Aconcagua, highest mountain in the Americas), play board games, or sleep.

As a Mormon this helped clarify the whole " What about people around the world who don't get baptized because they had never heard of Christianity?" thing. Most Christian denominations say that people will be judged off of their works without getting baptized. I just thought it make the "process" more streamlined that every person would still get to be baptized and still be judged on their works.