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| Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality. |
02-08-2010, 09:47 PM
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#31
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
More questions...gogogo
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02-08-2010, 09:58 PM
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#32
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veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,191
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Why does what they say in the quran about jesus not matchup with the new testament?
What they said jesus said in his section was made hundreds of years after jesus or the new testament and it is almost like a coverup.
It also sounds like the opposite of what jesus says in the bible. Something doesnt add up here.
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02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
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#33
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veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pirate of the Mediterranean
Posts: 2,671
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Is there a diffrence between sunni and shiite world view?
What are goals of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in the long term?
How the muslims view the whole "war of civilizations" approach to the Iraqi occupation?
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02-08-2010, 10:20 PM
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#34
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman6969
Why does what they say in the quran about jesus not matchup with the new testament?
What they said jesus said in his section was made hundreds of years after jesus or the new testament and it is almost like a coverup.
It also sounds like the opposite of what jesus says in the bible. Something doesnt add up here.
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The Qur'an says that Jesus Christ is the "word of God" (kelimatullah in Arabic) who was born from Virgin Mary ("Maryam" in the Qur'an) by a clear miracle from God. He is not God and he is not divine. In fact, in Islam, there is nothing "divine" other than God himself. So, Muslims do not worship Muhammad or any other human being. Muhammad, like Jesus Christ before him, and Moses and all of the other messengers of God (who may or may not be Hebrew) is seen as a human being who was chosen by God as the recipient of the divine revelation. What is "revealed" to all of these messengers is not God, but the will of God. So, in his essence, God always remains mysterious and beyond human reason and understanding. However, God chose to reveal his will to the human beings out of mercy and compassion towards his creation. The will of this divine being has been revealed from the creation of the first man up to Muhammad in a chain of revelations which goes through Adam and Seth to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ and Muhammad (and many other prophets and messengers who are not mentioned by their names in the Qur'an. In one of the prophetic traditions, Muhammad says that God has send 124,000 prophets to humanity, which is just an allegorical number for stating that there were many recipients of the revelation of God before Muhammad). So, Muhammad never claimed that he brought a new religion, but only said that he completed the revelation of God to humankind. In fact, Qur'an specifically mentions that Abraham was a "Muslim", meaning that he submitted his will to the will of God. Obviously, Abraham was not a follower of Muhammad, so how come he is mentioned as a Muslim? The meaning of Islam is "submitting", that is submitting your will and ego to the divine will of God. So, in this original meaning, Abraham was a Muslim according to the Muslims, as were Moses and Jesus Christ. All of these messengers went beyond the confines of their personal egos and submitted their wills to God's. In this sense, Islam is not the name of the historical religion preached by Muhammad in the seventh century, but the name of the eternal divine truth revealed throughout history. Finally, Muslims also believe that Jesus Christ was the messiah whom the Jews were waiting for.
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02-08-2010, 10:22 PM
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#35
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
Is there a diffrence between sunni and shiite world view?
What are goals of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in the long term?
How the muslims view the whole "war of civilizations" approach to the Iraqi occupation?
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The main difference is essentially political. It concerns different views about whom should be regarded as legitimate successors (caliphs and imams) to Muhammad after Muhammad's death. The theological differences between the Sunnis and Shi'is are quite minute and rather archaic. I could talk about them more if you want to, but I do not feel any pressing need to do so.
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02-08-2010, 10:24 PM
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#36
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veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,191
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by damaci
The Qur'an says that Jesus Christ is the "word of God" (kelimatullah in Arabic) who was born from Virgin Mary ("Maryam" in the Qur'an) by a clear miracle from God. He is not God and he is not divine. In fact, in Islam, there is nothing "divine" other than God himself. So, Muslims do not worship Muhammad or any other human being. Muhammad, like Jesus Christ before him, and Moses and all of the other messengers of God (who may or may not be Hebrew) is seen as a human being who was chosen by God as the recipient of the divine revelation. What is "revealed" to all of these messengers is not God, but the will of God. So, in his essence, God always remains mysterious and beyond human reason and understanding. However, God chose to reveal his will to the human beings out of mercy and compassion towards his creation. The will of this divine being has been revealed from the creation of the first man up to Muhammad in a chain of revelations which goes through Adam and Seth to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ and Muhammad (and many other prophets and messengers who are not mentioned by their names in the Qur'an. In one of the prophetic traditions, Muhammad says that God has send 124,000 prophets to humanity, which is just an allegorical number for stating that there were many recipients of the revelation of God before Muhammad). So, Muhammad never claimed that he brought a new religion, but only said that he completed the revelation of God to humankind. In fact, Qur'an specifically mentions that Abraham was a "Muslim", meaning that he submitted his will to the will of God. Obviously, Abraham was not a follower of Muhammad, so how come he is mentioned as a Muslim? The meaning of Islam is "submitting", that is submitting your will and ego to the divine will of God. So, in this original meaning, Abraham was a Muslim according to the Muslims, as were Moses and Jesus Christ. All of these messengers went beyond the confines of their personal egos and submitted their wills to God's. In this sense, Islam is not the name of the historical religion preached by Muhammad in the seventh century, but the name of the eternal divine truth revealed throughout history. Finally, Muslims also believe that Jesus Christ was the messiah whom the Jews were waiting for.

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But this doesnt explain why the part about jesus was written well after the new testament and like many things in the quran, it was covered up or changed to make the quran still right.
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02-08-2010, 10:33 PM
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#37
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
Is there a diffrence between sunni and shiite world view?
What are goals of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in the long term?
How the muslims view the whole "war of civilizations" approach to the Iraqi occupation?
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Muslim Brotherhood evolved from an essentially fundamentalist group in the 1940s (days of Hasan al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb) to a group advocating for more equality and democracy in Egypt today. Their long-term goal seems to be achieving a more open society in which religion could be practiced without much interference from the government. However, Muslim Brotherhood has branches in other Arabic countries, such as Syria, too, and their specific policies may or may not align with that of the Egyptian branch.
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02-08-2010, 10:37 PM
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#38
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman6969
But this doesnt explain why the part about jesus was written well after the new testament and like many things in the quran, it was covered up or changed to make the quran still right.
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What do you mean? Of course it was written after the new testament. The Qur'an was revealed six centuries after the death of Jesus. Also, what do you mean by "cover-up"? There was nothing covered up about the teachings of the Qur'an regarding Jesus Christ. What the Muslims today believe about the nature of Jesus Christ is exactly what was believed at the time of Muhammad.
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02-08-2010, 10:39 PM
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#39
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
Is there a diffrence between sunni and shiite world view?
What are goals of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in the long term?
How the muslims view the whole "war of civilizations" approach to the Iraqi occupation?
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The whole "war of civilizations" thing is a product of the imagination of Samuel Huntington which was turned into actual policy by neoconservative nutjobs of the Bush administration. Educated Muslims, like educated human beings everywhere, would laugh at such a ridiculous idea.
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02-08-2010, 10:53 PM
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#40
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veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pirate of the Mediterranean
Posts: 2,671
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by damaci
Muslim Brotherhood evolved from an essentially fundamentalist group in the 1940s (days of Hasan al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb) to a group advocating for more equality and democracy in Egypt today. Their long-term goal seems to be achieving a more open society in which religion could be practiced without much interference from the government. However, Muslim Brotherhood has branches in other Arabic countries, such as Syria, too, and their specific policies may or may not align with that of the Egyptian branch.

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How the government influence in religion manifest itself now both in Egypt and in Syria?
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02-08-2010, 10:56 PM
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#41
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
How the government influence in religion manifest itself now both in Egypt and in Syria?
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Both of these countries are essentially autocratic and they are rather hostile to any interpretation of any religion which may clash with their own official views.
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02-08-2010, 11:01 PM
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#42
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: six feet under...in Iceland
Posts: 799
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
OK, enough for tonight. Post your questions and I will try visit this thread to answer them tomorrow hopefully.
Cheers
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02-08-2010, 11:01 PM
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#43
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lebesgue Airlines
Posts: 15,738
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
What do you think about the history of the Quran's authorship? Was it written over a very small time period by 1 person or a group of people? Was knowledge of the new testament and old testament, which it seems like the author would have to know, be common? What religion would you (or a non-muslim) consider the family, (or most common religion in that time and place) that Muhammed was born into, some sort of proto-Jewish/Christian? Or if belief in Abraham etc was not common at that time and place, why was the Quran based on it?
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02-09-2010, 12:25 AM
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#44
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NEVA!
Posts: 6,406
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
How and why did you get into this field? What are your classes like? What level courses are they?
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02-09-2010, 07:17 AM
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#45
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 5,483
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Re: All about Islam: You ask, I answer..well I try
This is a question you might not be able to answer, simply due to not being familiar with the piece, but as you mentioned Sayyid Qutb, it seems you might have some insight. Are you familiar with the account of Al'Qaeda's formation presented in Adam Curtis' The Power of Nightmares? And if so, how accurate is it, to your knowledge?
I know it's a somewhat more political question than your OP indicates, so I understand if you don't want to answer, or don't feel you can.
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