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Old 05-19-2012, 01:30 PM   #1
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Against materialism

  1. Humans experience pain.
  2. No wholly material entity can experience pain.
  3. Therefore, humans are not wholly material entities.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:36 PM   #2
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Re: Against materialism

You haven't proven #2.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:36 PM   #3
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Re: Against materialism

Explain 2.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:37 PM   #4
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Re: Against materialism

I was hoping this would be a thread about the materialistic nature of religion, churches, their wardrobe, and all the other millions of dollars that fund their extravagant lifestyles.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:52 PM   #5
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee View Post
  1. Humans experience pain.
  2. No wholly material entity can experience pain.
  3. Therefore, humans are not wholly material entities.
Very interesting.

Animals can experiece pain and the bible says animals have souls.

That's partly why Jews stressed kosher practices. To spare animals pain.

Judaism 101 says on the Treatment of Animals that:

Judaism places great stress on proper treatment of animals. Unnecessary cruelty to animals is strictly forbidden, and in many cases, animals are accorded the same sensitivity as human beings. This concern for the welfare of animals is unusual in Western civilization. Most civilized nations did not accept this principle until quite recently; cruelty to animals was not outlawed until the 1800s, and even now it is not taken very seriously.

The primary principle behind the treatment of animals in Jewish law is preventing tza'ar ba'alei chayim, the suffering of living creatures. Judaism expresses no definitive opinion as to whether animals actually experience physical or psychological pain in the same way that humans do; however, Judaism has always recognized the link between the way a person treats animals and the way a person treats human beings. A person who is cruel to a defenseless animal will undoubtedly be cruel to defenseless people. Modern psychology confirms this understanding, with many studies finding a relationship between childhood animal cruelty and adult criminal violence. Sadly, the converse is not always true, and those who love animals do not always value human life: Hitler loved animals; the animal rights group PETA wrote a letter to Arafat telling him, when he blows up a bus full of Israelis, could he please not hurt any donkeys.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:53 PM   #6
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf32 View Post
You haven't proven #2.
Care to prove/argue its negation?
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:55 PM   #7
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Re: Against materialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain#Theory_today
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #8
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee View Post
Care to prove/argue its negation?
1) Humans are wholly material beings.
2) Humans experience pain.
3) Therefore, wholly material beings can experience pain.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #9
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Re: Against materialism

Matter can be living or non-living.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #10
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Re: Against materialism

Living matter chararcteristics:

1- Nutrition (feeding).
2- Breathing.
3- Growing.
4- Multiplication (increase in number).
5- Movement.
6- Death or degeneration.
The reverse is true of non-living.

Proofs can be deceptive.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour View Post
Living matter chararcteristics:

1- Nutrition (feeding).
2- Breathing.
3- Growing.
4- Multiplication (increase in number).
5- Movement.
6- Death or degeneration.
The reverse is true of non-living.

Proofs can be deceptive.
...and this proves living matter has non-material characteristics how exactly?
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:16 PM   #12
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Re: Against materialism

I'm not proving anything.

I'm making a distinction that could affect how the OP formulates his argument.

But he may want to argue intrinisics without rewriting it.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #13
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee View Post
Care to prove/argue its negation?
This is a logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. When presenting the argument, the onus is on the person making the argument to demonstrate that his or her premises are true when they are challenged; those rejecting the premise are not required to demonstrate that it is false. This is to avoid absurdities, such as the standstill in which you and Original Position currently find yourselves. Were it not for the argument from ignorance fallacy, you could simply point to your conclusion to refute his premise 1 and he could simply point to his conclusion to refute your premise 2 ad infinitum.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:47 PM   #14
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by zumby View Post
+1
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:29 PM   #15
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Re: Against materialism

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee View Post
Care to prove/argue its negation?
Care to prove that invisible unicorns dont exist?
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