***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice/questions***

[hussainsajwani]

Question ... if I sold live event shares on 2p2 and paid out huge winnings. What kind of a form do I need the buyers to fill out so I can report it to the IRS? Do I just fill out a 1099-Misc by hand? and send copies to the buyer and the IRS or is there a formal way of doing this?

[Zima421]

get a tax guy

[paptec]

I have a question.

I have a stakee that is playing MTT's and SNG's in the buy in range of $2.50 and $4.50. This is clearly stated in the contract that these are the stakes he is to play. I found out he is doing BAP's for bigger buy ins and also wants to find another backer so he can play bigger buy in MTT;s and SNG's. Even though my contract states the small limits, should he be able to play for someone else at higher limits.

He says yes and i say no.

Any info on this would be appreciated

[Bradqwer]

Hey guys im new to staking people im looking to stake people for mid buy in's $10 and under, is there a link anywhere that would have advice on staking people, what to look for, what to expect, how am i able to tell if someone truely is a good player v a player on a heater, what kind of stake should I be offering based on the BI level, ideally id like to hit the ground running, not be rolled and win but I guess its not that easy huh any advice or links be great.

[Rainbow Warrior]

^^ Have you read the Guide sticky in this sub-forum?

[Bradqwer]

Oh theres a sticky lol sorry guys will read now... note to self slapped wrist

[grillat]

Seriosly. How do i get staked?? I am good at mtt and i am a honest guy, serisly what more do you have to be??

Grillat_7 stars

[D.S.]

Well, not to blow your mind or anything, but it generally takes more than the 1 hour and 20 minutes from your first staking post to you making this post above to actually be offered a stake.

Most stakers review applications over a period of days, do background checks, speak to references, sometimes look at hand histories of your play to see if you're running hot or playing well consistently etc. Potential stakers may also be put off by you being stuck 14k or so at omaha and want assurances you're not a degenerate gambler.

[grillat]

Hahah why is everybode picking on my omaha game. I don play that s h i t longer lol. Thanks for that good answer anyway.

[doodydota]

Question to investors on rentability of short term packages vs. long term stackback clauses

I'm wondering if there is investors consistently making a profit at buying short term packages and maintaining a big portion of them in their investing portfolios. I would love to see a spreadsheet or successful investment history and fall to my knees in awe.

I am used to putting in my money conservatively into long term packages offering stakeback with usually 50/50 profit splits (on PTP) as a preferred method of investing. My investing bankroll is about $1000 of free funds plus an additional $1000 locked up in investmetns. Because quickhitter stakes are usually huge longshots I am a little bit reluctant to put money into these things without stakeback.

I see some huge packages sold at 1.25+ markups, like $3000 marked up to $3750 for single day runs of big events. Even assuming the horses have the edge and kill thoses games at 50%+ ROIs, is this huge markups still justified from a risk vs reward perspective, all assuming the horses are 100% trustworthy and will pay up?

I don't see a good reason to invest into these things long term or for significant sums of money other than as a sweat or quick gamble.

Is it correct to look at 1.25 markup on 2+2 as being equal to 80/20 profit split on PTP?

As I see it the 2+2 system is more geared towards big "quick hitter" packages, as bigger buyins generate more markup and horses have more incentive to sell big, while not risking to accumulate a lot of stakeback.

On the other hand, a big downside of 'stakeback deals' is when horses start to lose. I see it over and over again, that players dig themselfs into huge 'stakeback holes' and lose the interest to play at all. Often trapped in 'stakeback clauses' it's the beginning of a roll. My point is, 'stakeback deals' look good on paper but often turn out to be equally worthless when horses desintegrate.

I was contemplating a hybrid stake that would work just like normal stakeback with a profit split, but additionally offering the horse a little 'fee' on every game played (like 5% of buyin). The fee would work just like the 2+2 markup, but accumulate towards stakeback.

As a result of this, the horse would get a moderate risk free stream of profits upfront that would be payed for from future winnings. With a reasonable split the horse should still have enough incentive to look for fat scores to make everyone happy in the end.

The horse would not be trapped with a makeup clause (a concept that I reject) but the steady stream of income would work as an incentive to continue with the stake, while waiting for the big score.

[gp00053]

Originally Posted by doodydota

Question to investors on rentability of short term packages vs. long term stackback clauses

I see some huge packages sold at 1.25+ markups

I don't see a good reason to invest into these things long term or for significant sums of money other than as a sweat or quick gamble.

Investing or staking as far as bankroll, should be done the same way you play. . . using proper bankroll management. Otherwise if you don't in the same way you go broker playing, you'll go broker investing or staking.

Don't just look at the markup, look at the package as far as returns if the player hits, amongst other things.

For example supose you invested 2% in a package that included last Sunday's 250K guaranteed tourney buyin was $530. The player marked up their package 1.25 Lost every game in the package except the 250 Gtd. On that one they finished in the top 3. First paid $75870. , 2nd $54,795. 3rd $40,885

[FTSITTTD]

Received a pm from someone unrelated after posting a application for backing.

Am I being overly paranoid?

[20:36:11] andrew: hey simon

[20:36:42] Simon: hi

[20:37:41] andrew: so i see your breaking even on ps so potential...... but your graph is very up and down..... tilt...or you just feel your game needs 2 improve to beat the games?

[20:39:48] Simon: Is that filtered for just sng's? Yer its because I have never settled and concentrated on one particular game. Tilt is a factor but not a huge one, tbh my biggest leak is understanding EV and ICM

[20:41:13] andrew: i dont understand icm..... you dont need to for heads uo sngs.... it doesnt excist.... only for 6 and 9 mans +! ev is basically just playing games that you have an edge in.... so vs worse oppents then urself

[20:43:24] Simon: My husng play on stars has only been messing around really. I have no idea weather im up or down I have only been taking them semi serious for the last month ish. Im confident I can beat them just need to work hard

[20:43:56] Simon: Havent played on stars for 2 months tho just 888

[20:44:28] andrew: well according to pokerlabs you havnt played on 888 in sngs at all?

[20:44:33] andrew: just 2 agames

[20:45:06] Simon: Um? My sn there is _Epic_ is that the sn you searched for?

[20:45:33] andrew: 1 sec.... what have you been playin on ther?

[20:46:06] Simon: Playing husng's. found like $12 so have just been testing myself at various levels.

[20:46:25] Simon: I have hem so can produe those graphs if there is still probs

[20:46:38] andrew: so why do u need a stake......... what level can you fund urslef at?

[20:50:05] Simon: Without opening hem I played around 150 $5's with a 15% roi, and a few $10's with about a 10% roi but tiny sample size. They play is lol bad and table selecting is easy even at the micros as they dont insta fill. I need a stake as I played a few $20's against a decent didnt go well, then as I have been under rolled I decided to play lolmahas to build a roll but busted.

[20:50:44] andrew: lolmahas???

[20:50:51] Simon: sorry PLO

[20:51:14] andrew: ok....so do you have any money in your account so i can watch you play sum hu sngs?

[20:51:19] andrew: like at a low level?

[20:51:25] andrew: over teamviewer

[20:51:36] Simon: On 888 or stars?

[20:51:40] andrew: either

[20:51:49] Simon: How does teamviewer work?

[20:51:59] andrew: called teamviewer6

[20:52:02] andrew: download in

[20:52:08] andrew: and u give me ur code

[20:52:11] andrew: and passowrd

[20:52:13] andrew: and i can see ur screen

[20:52:17] andrew: and watch u play

[20:52:23] andrew: i want 2 see you 2 table

[20:52:30] Simon: Give me 2 secs

[20:52:34] andrew: ok

[20:52:43] andrew: also do u have a mic?

[20:52:48] Simon: No sorry

[20:53:04] andrew: can you get one and we do this tmorrow?

[20:53:14] andrew: ther cheap

[20:53:24] andrew: i got 1 for 2£

[20:53:48] Simon: Well maybe, give me two secs il brb

[21:00:47] Simon: Have you got any info on you like sn's or anything? Do you run a stable? Im a little on guard because I have don a ton of staking deals and havnt been asked to do anything like this before

[21:01:31] andrew: nobodys ever asked to watch you play before staking you?

[21:02:14] Simon: No, HH's have been requested but not watching a live game

[21:03:05] andrew: well i once applyied to be staked for bankroll supply who sponser 200 horses and he watched me play and we had a live chat so he could hear my thort process

[21:03:19] andrew: thats paul jackson....

[21:03:27] andrew: one of best poker english players ever

[21:03:36] andrew: so i figured if he does it like that

[21:03:41] andrew: it must be a gud idea

[21:06:59] Simon: Np, if you can tell me ur credentials or something or sn's? Do you back many players? Tbh I wouldnt be asking, but Im prob gunna get a bit of advice before I let someone I dont know ghost me, no offence obv.

[21:07:53] andrew: ..... hmmm so im going to ghost you and rob you of 7 dollers or what ever buying your paying into lol?

[21:12:45] Simon: Its not that, there are all a few protential problems. I don't mean any offence but I only have your 20ish 2+2 post's to go on to try and assertain who you are. Like I said if I already knew you were an established backer or had a larger rep then I prob wouldnt have a problem.

[21:15:44] *** andrew sent $.png ***

[21:15:59] andrew: thats my cash grah

[21:25:24] Simon: Ok well, I would be able to get a mic tomorrow anyway it being a sunday and the snow is now comming down :-0 I would have afew questions before I dl teamviewer tho, What sort of levels are you able to stake at? If we made a deal is there the potential to move up?

[21:27:48] andrew: just stoped staking a guy that played up to 200nl

[21:28:30] andrew: i dont have a great feeling about this now tho bud..... there has to be trust so weal pass on it.

[21:28:48] andrew: im rish-fishaa on ps an was dishcloth on ub

[21:31:27] Simon: Ok np , like I said I didnt mean any offence but Im being extra carefull these days. If you want a few hh's or something thats fine. I have been goasted once but that was during a stake which feels different.

He then left and went offline. Does this seem odd to anyone or should I just relax?

[AirborneSapper9845]

I know nothing about staking and staking agreements. For a low stakes MTT player, what ROI over what type of sample size would generally be viewed as a good candidate for staking?

[SAMSCOTT3]

deleted

[Jorizz]

Hi guys, I have a question.

I wanted to grind some EPT side events in Madrid (sat to the ME, 2k Holdem, 1k Holdem and possibly some lower turbo's in there..) and was thinking of selling some shares on here. My last few packages have run extremely well and were generally sold out very quickly and have a pretty unblemished reputation. The point is however that for poker tournaments in a foreign country I have to pay 29% Tax over my profit - this rule is for everybody in The Netherlands and as silly as it is I cannot deduct selling 50% of my action from the total profit. So my question is would such a package sell or am I just going to get flamed for asking (what effictively is going to be) a pretty high MU?

My stats are:

My Statistics
9,584 $25 $83 40% $235,902

And as for live experience I have 2 cashes over like 15 tourny sample (11th in a 1500 FO for 6.7k and 3th in a 550 Bounty for 4.8) plus some decent live cash experience.

My past few threads are here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...no-mu-1166125/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...no-mu-1166983/

Edit: I do honestly believe that I am still a +EV buy even with those tax deductions otherwise I would not be playing them in the first place but just wanted to get some input.

Edit: Note that in my previous package I sold without mark-up but was told by a lot of people including buyers that I really should be charging MU - something I haven't seen often in the Marketplace.