Hey,
Im about to stake/coach some one but i have zero experience with the money lending part so i thought id ask here...

Heres what id like to know:
I understand i give him a starting br, but if/when i need to give him more, how/when does he pay back each new br?

The starting br makes sense for him to return when the deal expires...but if during the deal i shipped multiple rolls it doesnt seem smart to end the deal with him owing me like 100buy ins.
So i guess he has to pay back any new br (except the initial starting br) through our weekly profit chops? If so, how exactly? Am i missing something?


Quick answer would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Hello,

Is this staking deal for cash games or mtts/sngs? Depending on the game type will help the community respond to your question.

If Its a SNG backing deal, I believe around 100-150 buyins should be the max limit for backing (Send 30 buyins at a time id say). You must have a limit in mind of what you are willing to stake someone but at the same time you have to understand the swings of the games. For example, in the 180 man turbos the swings can easily be 200 buy ins etc. MTTs can be around the same.

When the horse reaches a certain profit goal (Say $1k BR on a $300 stake, games don't matter) then you and the stakee should agree to split the profits based on your cut %. So if its 50/50 have him send you $350, he cashes out $350, and he is left with his original $300 roll. Lets say the horse is in for $900 (3 Rolls) and scores something to increase his bankroll to $1200 and you agree to chop. I would have him send $600 (2 rolls) + $150 back so that he will have his original $300 roll to keep playing with plus his $150 cash out.

Lastly, if someone is constantly down 100+ buyins and their game is not improving it might be time to move on and cut losses. Chasing massive losses by funding the horse is not always beneficial. If the player has shown to be in deep make up before, but able to climb out of make up while playing solid (you need to know if the horse is capable in their games you have them backed for) then you should continue to roll them.

I am sure I missed many points but I hope this helps!

Its for STT SNGs....and yeah, 30bi start is what i planed as well.
I understand the swings involved, i grind these games myself.

This is basically what i wanted to hear,
"Lets say the horse is in for $900 (3 Rolls) and scores something to increase his bankroll to $1200 and you agree to chop. I would have him send $600 (2 rolls) + $150 back so that he will have his original $300 roll to keep playing with plus his $150 cash out."

I also did a "trial month" meaning i can end the deal after 30days if i think he isnt getting better at all or im unhappy with his work ethic.

Thank you!

Hello. We have a little disagreement with me and my backers in which i'd like to hear your opinion about.

I sold 50% of my action in 5k WCOOP Main Event. During the first day i had my playing privileges removed by an accident and because of that i lost most of my stack and had to start day 2 with only few big blinds. I got blocked from playing on in a midst of a session where i was playing bunch of cash tables and wcoop main. I got my access to play on pokerstars back the next day just before day 2 of wcoop main began. In despite of losing most of my chips due to pokerstars mistake i managed to get into money for 15k before busting.

For the next few weeks i was emailing pokerstars about how they are going to compensate me for this. After few weeks i got a message from them reading:



Now we are in a disagreement about how much of this refund should my backers get. I'd like to hear your opinions.

I'm no expert but it looks like the backers should be happy to get their 2.5k back plus half of the lost 2.7k profit.
Rest is a gift from Stars to you.

treat the total refund as tournament winnings

I proposed to give them 50% of the lost tournament equity which they declined claiming they deserve bigger cut of the refund and now we are in a stalemate.

im also no expert in these situations but since you are not getting much replays ill give my 2 cents

as already mentioned, just treat total refund as tournament winnings,
since thats what the refund ended up being...winnings

you should chop everything...its the same as if you final tabled and got x-place

perhaps you can argue that you should not chop the difference between 7,675 and 10k (2,325$) and keep that part for youre self....but even that is very thin and is debatable to say the least...the rest is not debatable IMO and should be chopped 50/50

Total refund simply cant be treated as tournament winnings since part of it is compensation for me losing my blinds and antes on multiple cash games that i played in the sane time with that tournament and that i wasnt able to play for almost a day. Atleast thats my opinion.

backer should get 50% of all refund on the tournament equity and the buyin since their EV of buying 50% of you was harmed by you not being able to play

the rounding of the equity loss up to 10k as a sort of compensation is kind of a grey area as the compensation is for your 'inconvenience' which will cover your cash game blinds/antes/non-backer based play

do you know how much you lost roughly due to the disconnect on the cash tables?

if so you could ratio that with the tournament equity and create a 'fair' chop of the compensation

then just subtract the amount lost in cash games from the total amount

..as far as compensation for not being able to play...thats a fair point...maybe then keep the extra money givien from stars for that(2,325$)

so chop 12,675$...minus the amount lost in cash games

Thanks for your opinions. We have now agreed to chop 12.675$ and rest is for my own compensation.

yeah thats fair
gg wp

i just read a little of youre thread millionfolds, interesting stuff

why is the thread closed?

I asked some beginner staking questions @post#2301 and quickly got a good answer here so i thought id try again...

Since then, things are going well with the person i coach/stake and he made good money given the stakes he plays. However, we ran in to our first small disagreement when he lost his first br recently... here are the details:

His initial br was 300$, but shortly after i added 200$ because he did well and we added some slightly higher games, to make the total br 500$.

Every week we chop profit and rb, but this week for the first time, the day before the chop he said he doesnt have enough to fire up a session and suggested he cashes in our stars coins in order to have enough to play his regular session, i said ok.
It was 6k coins witch is 60$(this is the rb money we chop weekly 50/50).
But he didnt manage to start winning and lost the rest of the br and the 60$ of the rb money he cashed in.

So now i will ship him a new br of 500$....our disagreement is around those 60$.
I see those 60$ as separate from the br...i see it as profit, 50% of witch is mine.
In other words i say he is in make up 530$, he says its 500$
(+the original 500 ofc)


I suggested we get a second/third opinion here....the 30$ is tiny in comparison to the whole picture but i would like for both parties to stay happy and not feel shorted...also im asking cause of similar future situations that could arise.

Anyone with any thoughts, please share!

thank you

he is in make up 500 because he lost 500 of your money. what you are saying is if he started with $500 bankroll, won 200, then lost his entire bankroll 200 + 500, he would be in make up 600 because he lost 200 profit half of which is yours. this is not how it works. there is no difference between starscoin and ordinary money won. money is fungible.

no i didnt say he won 200(i didnt mention how much he won)....i said i added 200 making his br 300+200+500....so 1,000$

however you might be right about what you are saying about that the rb being the same with profit...

anyone else?

I know, I was using an example to make a point, my point being you are only entitled to a split of profits not gross revenue.

oh i see, my bad

yeah that does make more sense, looks like he was right...thank you

Could anyone link me if there is any post about gradually buying out of a stake and how it works? I had a pretty good month and want to increase the amount of my own action. Is it as easy as just buying say 20% from backer of my online cash game action?

You have a few options:

1) Negotiate a better split from your backer. He should be willing if you're a trustworthy/honest/profitable player. Generally, having some profit/volume/bankroll goals is a good way to increase the % more in your favor.

2) You can get to the point where you 'sell' action vs. being staked. So you would want to keep like 80% of your action and sell the other 20% to the backer, you would get 80% of the profits but risk 80% of losses/backer would receive 20% and take 20% of losses. This 80% number can be any number as well and it's almost like selling a package.

I'm not so sure on the scenario where you buy 20% of yourself. I guess if your split is 50/50 right now and you wanted to take 20% of your own action, I guess you would get 70% (but risk 20% of losses) and your backer would get 30% split and risk 80%? (vs. risking 100% and receiving 50% of the action). The overall numbers would get a bit confusing, especially while in makeup (I guess you would just put up 20% of the bankroll for a bigger split?).

Sorry this is probably not much help.

Thanks, gives me a bit of clarity.

The option I was considering before was the 3rd and I was trying to figure out if the numbers would all work out or if there was already a standard way of doing it.

Yeah it would work just as orange said for the 3rd situation. You put up 20% of the roll on the site. So if bankroll is 10k you put 2k and they put 8k and you get 60% and they get 40% of profits (assuming 50/50 split but you can do with whatever numbers).