Turning TPTK on flop into river bluff? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Turning TPTK on flop into river bluff?

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04-29-2017 , 10:26 AM

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Villain is good reg. Plays aggressively and exploitatively in live games. Understand he is also a winner in 200z games on stars. No real history with hero. Hero is young male playing fairly tight and solid.

5/10/20 7 handed
Hero (3k) opens AThh UTG 60
BTN -loose passive fish (3k) calls. SB -loose passive fish (1k) calls. V (covers) completes in Strd.

Flop (250)
Tc8h5c
X. V leads 200. Hero (thinks for a while) calls. Fold. Fold.

Turn (650)
Kc
X. X.

River (650)
Qh
X. Hero?

Should I bet river (obv as bluff!)? If so sizing?
Anything different on Flop or Turn?

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04-29-2017 , 05:14 PM

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

check river nh

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04-29-2017 , 07:18 PM

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Don't see a reason to bet. If he got cold feet with a set or two pair or something he's not folding here

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04-29-2017 , 07:40 PM

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

( ) top pair

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04-29-2017 , 10:49 PM

Lego05

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 24,895

What better hand could a bet conceivably get to fold? He can't even have AhQh or QhJh because the river is the Qh (and if the river was the Qd, he might call a river bet with those given your check back on the turn [why would you check back the turn with a hand better than a pair of queens?].

Just check back river.

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04-29-2017 , 11:02 PM

ziggyzaooo

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,936

I think you'd have to bet turn/river if you wanted to bluff

just betting one street isn't gonna work imo.

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04-30-2017 , 05:41 AM

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

So for those that suggest checking back, what hands do you choose to bluff here? The only worse hands possible are T9s and JTs. We must have some bluffs here since there are definitely value hands that we want to bet.

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04-30-2017 , 09:59 AM

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCooper

You don't need to win every pot

It just isn't a great spot to bluff but if you are determined to bluff I would overbet here

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04-30-2017 , 01:43 PM

isunkurbttlship

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 7,659

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCooper

You don't have any 8s, 76s etc?

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04-30-2017 , 08:17 PM

#10

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Check back river. I'm happy to get to showdown with this hand.

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05-01-2017 , 08:14 AM

#11

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by isunkurbttlship

You don't have any 8s, 76s etc?

No. I fold 8s on flop with 2 players to act behind. I bet 76s on turn 100% (if I even open this UTG).

In hindsight I think I do have worse hands specifically T9s and JTs and so I should use T9s as my bluff here. For value have KTs, QTs, QQ which is only 8 combos and so using the 3 T9s combos is sufficient to balance my range.

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05-01-2017 , 08:16 AM

#12

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by diskoteque

You don't need to win every pot

It just isn't a great spot to bluff but if you are determined to bluff I would overbet here

It's not about trying to win every pot its about balancing my range with the appropriate bluffs.

I actually did check back and he also had AT.

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05-01-2017 , 01:03 PM

#13

keybattle

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 665

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCooper

I think you need to work out your value combos of this line first?

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05-01-2017 , 01:06 PM

#14

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

^^ Yeah

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05-06-2017 , 01:36 PM

#15

day'n'night

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,523

if he donks AT in this hand, then you should start repoping him much more aggressively. AThh should be a raise on the flop, so should alot of other combos.

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05-07-2017 , 02:56 AM

#16

applesauce123

adept

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 851

Block nut straight, good spot to shove

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05-07-2017 , 04:10 PM

#17

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by day'n'night

if he donks AT in this hand, then you should start repoping him much more aggressively. AThh should be a raise on the flop, so should alot of other combos.

It's hard to put a good player on a range for a non standard play like this. But even after seeing this I don't think we can justify raising. This board is much better for his range than our range, in particular he has many more 2 pair+. I also think he is very value heavy when leading into 3 players including 2 weak players that connect with this board. I suspect AT is the bottom of his value leading range. Perhaps we should raise if we know he leads with a hand as weak as T7s but we don't know he does this. Also if we were less deep I think raising is the better play.

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05-07-2017 , 04:11 PM

#18

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by applesauce123

Block nut straight, good spot to shove

Shoving only makes sense if we block the nuts. We don't block the nuts, just the nut straight.

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05-07-2017 , 05:17 PM

#19

applesauce123

adept

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 851

Doesn't matter, he isn't checking a flush twice. Get it in

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05-11-2017 , 05:53 AM

#20

YGOchamp

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,555

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCooper

Having a slight polarity advantage of being able to have T8s 85s and T5s doesn't nullify our overall equity advantage range vs range -- if you are not raising any overpairs and not raising any bluffs (other than strong draws), he can lead his entire range here with impunity, such as weak Tx and 8x protecting its equity and some gutters/bluffs.

AT is actually a better hand to raise than KK though because our hand requires more protection on later streets and we're blocking some of his 2pair combos

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05-11-2017 , 08:58 AM

#21

DrCooper

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGOchamp

he can lead his entire range here with impunity

This argument only makes sense if we were headsup. Before the flop we obv have huge range advantage, but once he is leads into 3 players this puts his range ahead of our range. He cannot start exploiting the fact we overfold/never raise since the stations in the hand will just call him down.

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05-26-2017 , 05:12 AM

#22

TEAMTYNEZ

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCooper

Probably 9c9x

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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