Bttn is a solid tag sitting on 2500ish . we are playing shorthanded with an utg straddle and he is raising 80% on the bttn. Villain makes it 40 on the bttn hero is in the sb with AsQs who makes it 120. Villajn calls flop is 2s3s4c hero bets 140 villain calls 140 . turn is a Qc hero bets 320 villain jams all in for 1800 more on top..
To some this may be a snap fold and to some it may not be..woukd like to hear what the rest of you will do in this spot?

raise more pre. flop i like a c/raise against this described guy

I also raise larger pre. Really not a fan of having a flop c/r range with these stacks in a spot where villain is (or will be) nutted far more often than us, though. The overpairs play much better as bets. This combo is a usually bet / occasionally check call for me. I probably bet a bit smaller on turn as played but its not a big deal. Fold fast to his absurd overshove imo. Draws very rarely do this.

How big should we go pre? Also when i think about check raising flop the problem is that if our opponent does decide to bet he is more likely to bet 2 pairs plus.. Most players dont even bet 1010 in this spot from my experience.. So if i decide to check raise fllop i may be up against a very strong range and also it seems bluffy to my opposition on this texture. The reason i decided to bet flop was to deny him equity and also build a pot if i do hit.

Would check calling be a bad play? Cuz i would do that with alot of big pairs here. So i think for balance reasons it makes sense..

4x pre is more standard but your sizing isnt a big deal and its ok
id check this board at a pretty hi frequency but a bet is ok as well

you cc because ip has more nutty combos than you

lp2016 i think he means would it be a bad play to c/c turn.

OP, this combo probably wants to c/c turn some of the time depending on opponent tendencies but betting is probably the majority play. His sets and straights tend to raise flop (though not always) so your range is looking pretty good on this turn.

But how much of your range is bet/calling this turn? If this hand is a snapfold then it's just 3 combos of QQ and maybe 1 of A5s?

I've been meaning to ask this question for years. Does "solid tag" pretty much just mean "nit"?

Gotta have better player descriptions and game flow to even be able to think about the hand. Some timing/description of the all in would be nice too.

Only really bad players (or really good players leveling) take villain's line/sizing for value, right?

My definition of a sold tag is one that knows what he is doing.. Not playing a ton of hands but is capable of bluffing because he understands ranges.. Is not someone i really fear.. But someone who is good enough to beat the games. Because he doesnt spew.. Someone who is not as spectabular as dgaf. But probably wins cuz he plays better ranges and doesnt spew and is good at valueing betting.. But truly my personal experience about this particular player is that he doee play well but also runs pretty good imo.. Doesnt seem to tilt massively.

As far as dynamics at the time is that we were both stuck about 2k each . . It was 5 handed and he was raising alot of buttons as u should.. I was 3 beting him a lil more than normal from the big blind and he was folding alot.. We werent really after eachother but i was playing but i was 3 betting him at a frequency that i felt was correct based upon the game flow. If that makes any sense.

Your hand is absolutely enormous- and people want you to fold it shorthanded in a 3b pot 125 bb to start. And flush draws aren't a huge concern for villain due to pre. So... unless he knows you well enough to level, or he thinks you are a complete station (most "solid tags" are not/this is prob not the case at all), this is not for value if he is good.

Not sure what I'm missing.

The game was 2 5 with a straddle of 10 dollar blinds.. So actually eff stack was 250 bbs pre.. I wont even ask this question at 125 bbs deep. Im snapping it off and could care less at 125bbs.. And realistically i dont have many hands that i would want to call this ship with besides my hand and top set.. Cuz im rarely gonna have any other set.

Checking turn also crossed my mind but i felt that i could be missing alot of value by checking turn.. Opponent can have pair plus gutters.. Pocket pairs lower than a Q.. A smaller flush draw.. Etc.. So many hands im missing value from.. Therefore i felt betting turn was best given oppositions total range

I agree with what u said about my calling range when he ships turn.. AsQs is one of the few hands im tempted to call this shove with

Need so many more details, have you been 3betting him, how has he been reacting to 3bets, etc etc but I assume since you're super deep he's calling your 3bet very wide, especially given how wide he is opening. Lets take a look:

Flat: JJ:0.5,TT,99,88,77,66,55,44,33,22,AKo:0.5,AQ,AJ,AT ,A9s,A8s,A7s,A6s,A5s,A4s,A3s,A2s,KQ,KJ,KT,K9s,K8s, K7s,K6s,K5s,K4s,K3s,K2s,QJ,QT,Q9,Q8s,Q7s,Q6s,JT,J9 ,J8,J7s,T9,T8,T7s,T6s,98,97,96s,87,86s,85s,76,75s, 74s,65s,64s,63s,54s,53s,52s,43s,42s,32s
Which is 37% of hands.

If you're 3betting him wide for value, your hand range might look a little like:
AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,99,88,AK,AQ,AJ,ATs,A5s,A4s,A3s,A2s, KQ,KJs,QJs,JTs,T9s
Which is 10.7% of hands

On this flop, we have 4 straights out of 139 combos. Everything else is an overpair or a gutshot or air. We also have a crushing 64% equity.

Villain has 8 straights, 9 sets, and 7 two pairs out of 469 combos. And he only has 35% equity. But if we bet this large, we let him blow the pot up to the point where we can't defend against this 5% of his range because we still have 10x the pot to play.

Most of the time, this flop should go check/check, if we are trying to play balanced. Which, since we're against a TAG and have what amounts to no reads, we should be.

Alternatively, we could potentially bet 15% of the pot or so, villain will have to fold enough of his range given our crushing equity that it'll be immediately profitable. But it is small enough that the pot doesn't grow all that much. I don't think it is the right play, but it is certainly an alright one, and it gets better the more smaller pocket pairs we have in our range.

It's obviously incredibly exploitable to fold this hand. I'm just banking on the assumption that a "solid tag" doesn't rip it for a huge overbet here without set/straight often enough for us to call with a 12 out draw (which is what our hand is, essentially a gutter + flush draw that blocks top set). I could be way off here. Spots like this are actually pretty game dependent. I wouldn't fold it in the identical spot in my soft game because people can just too easily be relied upon to make terrible unexpected plays.

If you're trying to play GTO obviously you should call because you have the best combo for doing so other than straight/set.

Yes.. If we fold i believe we are way too exploitable.

Love the way u break things down mathematically. Thanks!

Never folding here... What would you do with a naked AQ here?


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My thought process on this hand was that if my opponent was bluffing the most likely hand he had was 5c7c.. He can have all sets pretty much besides QQ.. And i guess some straights. I thought majority of the time i will be beat here. But if he has a set i still have flush and straight outs if he has a straight i still have flush draw outs and the other factor was that sometimes he could have some other hands like 55 or 66 which i didnt really weigh heavily. Also just some other random stuff

With just naked AQ i would heavily lean towards folding

problem is if you are 3b an aggr % from sb vs btn opens you can show up with alot of better hands here
many good shorthanded players will be 3b all pps here as well as many of the 56s combos.
so if you have these combos in your 3b range you can consider folding a hand like this
im assuming you are not 3b this aggresively sb v btn as a part of your overall game plan, so if your range is like overpairs and big card broadway stuff you need to x this flop basically w your whole range since ip has every set, every straight and some 2p combos as well and the best hand u can have here is qqq. so if you call w only qqq then he has a very easy bluff
you gotta have a better understanding about how to build and protect your ranges/cbet % etc on various textures in 3b pots when oop deep

Exploitability kinda gets taken off the table when someone goes off the reservation with an 1800 raise in this spot. It's just not a way in which he would be likely to exploit you with light semibluffs (particularly when you block a lot of those semibluffs).

So is consensus to fold turn as played?

I think i'm the only folder in the thread so far. Consensus is to call.

I mean its a pretty marginal spot either way. Folding is reasonable but it rly sucks to not realize your equity w this hand. Guess u should just stove your equity vs 2p+ and some bluffs