Hey 2+2,

I am a medium-stakes player playing 75% 5-5 NL (1KNL-1.5KNL) 15% 2/3 NL and 10% NL (I usually only buy-in for 1000-1750 at this stake). I have been playing 30-50 hours per week.

Edit: Read guidelines and wanted to say that I posted in this forum because although I appreciate their efforts the live low-stakes no limit forum offers pretty common knowledge besides a few posters.

I am a winner at all stakes although my hourly is highest at 5-5 right now (probably too small of a sample from 5-10 plus some run bad)

I have been looking to improve my game. One of the most common tells I have noticed is timing tells.

If a recreational/average reg player snap calls you on a drawy board it is often an indication of weakness such as the obvious draw or a mid-pair. If a recreational/average reg player tanks forever then raises you on a polarized you can often realize he is just hollywooding since they are likely thinking about a bluff.

These are just some examples of tells and I'm sure you guys have a bevy too.

I was just curious, does anyone try to make their postflop actions like 7-12 seconds (or some timeframe) every time in the bigger games? I feel that besides really close spots I know what's in the pot and have a good enough idea where I'm at to make this mark. (sidenote:I already have some FPS [due to a perceived skill advantage, lol] when I have the puck that might even help me avoid some leveling mistakes.)

I don't think it's just paranoia, I think I have missed significant value by tanking too long before raising almost flipping my hand over or snap shoving a river where I backdoored the nuts expecting a station to call but my timing seem super strong (especially since there were no missed draw).

Hey there ,When I play Live I don't take forever on every decision I believe that will cost you money if you take forever. I believe in some big pots you should take your time and weigh your options, But don't tank unnecessarily and don't snap shove.

Its virtually impossible to make snap decisions unless you have the nuts. If you are making snap decisions you are not calculating anything or weighing all your options. Basic common knowledge. The regs you speak of and basically almost all live players have no fundamentals.

Also nobody is paying attention to timing tells in live poker trust me on that.

I don't tank often. I am talking about taking 5 seconds every time you have the betting lead on the flop, 7 seconds on the turn, and maybe 10 seconds on the river. It isn't gonna really slow the game down but I find people who balance their timing are hard to play against

I am paying attention in my games. I can't say I know that x number or x% of regs do too but I am playing in a game with 6-7 other regs that I feel I have a moderate edge against (would play any reg at 5-5 and most 5-10 regs HU for any duration).

The fact that people have ignored me ITT is probably good new for live poker. Timing is incredibly important for building tells, allows for thinner value bets and adding barrels where the hand range of opponents might not dictate such aggression.








At this point I hope everyone thinks this is a troll and pays no attention to their timing only trying to put me on a range/ what I'm repping/think what i think I'm repping to them.


It's hard to gain any real info from 2+2 these days. mostly really shallow analysis trying to figure out the psychology of why some posted their 'cooler', too nitty to like a bluff unless it's perfect and pplz assigning ridiculous ranges too their opponents.

the thing is that although there are clear patterns that many V's have, timing tells are tied to the individual - some guys are strong when they snap shove, others are bluffing. Same when they tank raise - some guys are bluffing, some will mostly show you a big hand. So not clear what you expect to get from the forum on this.

The thing is when you play fast it often subtly encourages the rest of the table to play faster since they unconsciously want to stay in line with the rhythm of the game, so you generally increase your hourly since there's more hands being seen. Considering how many idiots there are in live poker and how few badasses there are that can pick up on something like timing tells, it seems wayyy more profitable at 10/25 or lower to just play every hand as fast as possible.

Timing is different for everyone in live poker, but generally speaking it can polarize certain villains and make it easier to hero-call on certain rivers where a.) everything missed and b.) if they valuebet rivers thin at all (which many live players don't) they'll likely think about it first, so a quick bet on the river is polarized to either fat value or a whiffed draw that has already realized the only chance for them to win is to bet.

Just insight on how widely M-H NL player think about timing and possibly how to improve timing. I am not asking for your tells on others.

I think about this topic a lot but I have little mechanism for accomplishing this timing without counting 'one one-thousand..... seven one-thousnad' in my mind.

Fwiw, i tend to take my time with decisions, even first to act, evaluating different options, hand ranges of the villain, my percieved hand range, good turn/river cards, vs bad turn/ river cards. This stuff takes time. I dont take so much time that it holds up the game, but i dont snap anything. At least 10 seconds. How do you guys get through all the mental gymnastics so quickly?

What do you guys think a snap decision by a regfish means? When i say regfish I mean just a reg that is not very good but plays very often.

usually strength.

I have had similar observations DaBowskii. As other things, it needs to be confirmed with how they've played their other hands as well. But I have used the snap betting to win some big pots off of fish before. Like one guy who I noticed would always take his time when he had a big hand, snap CR'd me on the flop and then basically bet the turn really big almost before the turn card even came out, I called down and he ended up having air.

But be careful because if someone is good they could take advantage of you as well. I tricked one guy over the summer in a decent pot.

5-10NL
Villain has $4k Hero covers.
Folds to hero on button who has Q9
Hero raises to 40, Villain raises to 120 from bb, hero calls.

Flop: Q Q 5r
Villain bets 200 I call as fast as I can and beat him into the pot.

Turn: 6 Villain checks I instantly say all in. He tank calls me with 99 drawing dead.

I know it's kind of an isolated incident, but just saying.

This is how I used to think about it, but I realize now that 10 seconds is ridiculous in a single raised pot except facing a raise, donkbet, or in a thin river spot .

I now balance my timing according to the pot size, as the pot gets bigger I allow myself more time to analyze a spot unless I am trying to use my timing to induce/get looked up light/fold entire ranges.

^ This def helps make better plays like being more floaty without history and make better laydowns in medium pots vs villains that don't bluff enough to make calling +EV or w/e. Taking some extra time allows me to think about what I am repping and deeper levels like what does villain think he is repping on future streets.

I find a timing tell is that people that tank forever mostly have weak showdown hands/ draws with no showdown value, and some nutted hands they hollywood.

Until someone proves they are balancing their timing tells I think stereotyping is really useful. Even if we fire 2/3 bullets and get snapped off on the river by a top pair that was obviously inducing by tanking but taking no time on a 'scary river' we gain valuable info about our opponents level of thinking.









Against players on the nitty side I like barreling really quickly lol. Against stations I love value-betting really quickly to encourage them to look me up with their inferior holdings and throwing any analysis aside.

But these are pretty obvious exploits... Even the best regs in my games (besides me ldo) don't really consider there timing tells unless it's w/o the initiative or with the stone-cold nutter butters. IMO I have a LOT LOT LOT of timing balance to consider before I step-up to 10/20/??? but until then if you take the time you can probably make timing tells one of your biggest edges AINEC in games 5-10 and below.

It depends but without further history looks like either a draw with significant equity (doesn't wanna face a lot of heat on future non-river streets) or a strong showdown hand that is ahead of your range but to strong to raise (from their perspective so possibly nitrolling).

Can also be a hand with a ton of backdoors but it's probably weighted towards a draw/bluff catcher until proven otherwise.

I really like this. Thanks.

That doesn't mean you're good, that means he is an idiot. NH btw..