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| Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies |
07-19-2012, 08:04 PM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
2/5NL with $10 button straddle
Hero ($2800): LAG image
Villain ($1900): In the past he's been pretty TAG and buys in short, but recently he's been buying in deeper and has opened up his game quite a bit.
Hero and villain have respect for each other's game, but have gotten in several leveling wars in the past.
Villain puts $10 straddle on button. SB folds. Hero in BB calls with AhTx. Everyone folds and villain checks his option.
Hero blind bets $25. I know everyone here will hate this, but I occasionally do this in spots where I know my preflop range is way ahead of villain's and betting blind will push some action. Overall, spots like this have been profitable, but probably best not to do against better players, especially OOP.
Flop: 2x6h7h
Villain raises hero's blind bet to $100. I think villain's range contains a ton of air here, and I call with my Ah blocker. Sure, he could have 26o, but I also know he's well aware that this board hits his range more than mine and is very likely working off that fact.
Turn: Jh
Hero checks. Villain bets $125. Hero pauses about 10 seconds and raises to $300. Villain pauses about 15 seconds and re-raises to $700 with $1100 behind. Hero really wants to shove... In the past, I've never seen villain try to play for $1500+ stacks with anything but the nuts, so I have a hard time seeing him show up with medium flushes. And he is definitely capable of a complete air-ball here. Shove? Yay or nay?
Feel free to tell me I played all streets horribly as I'm sure most of you will.
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07-19-2012, 08:41 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Winning
Posts: 3,990
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Call turn and c/r all in on any river, including board pairs.
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07-19-2012, 10:03 PM
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#3
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 477
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Open value range vs these guys & stack it off light. This is quite a predicament you got yourself into. I think seeking advice for a hand vs a villain that you have tons of history with in leveling spots is going to do you more harm than good. Nobody can really tell you what this guy is thinking better than your own intuition. Follow your reads.
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07-19-2012, 11:17 PM
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#4
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 917
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
I think the deciding factor here is he 3-bet you to 700 with 1100 behind. This is very rarely anything other than him telling you he is willing to get it in. From this spot I think I would flat and jam on any heart or board pair, but ideally you would be doing this by either leading turn or just c/c (best option imo).
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07-20-2012, 04:25 PM
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#5
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssslipnssslide
Nobody can really tell you what this guy is thinking better than your own intuition. Follow your reads.
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I guess this is probably the best advice
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07-20-2012, 05:06 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,942
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes
I guess this is probably the best advice
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you're read is tricky, though. guys who aren't willing to stack off w/o the nuts are probably not willing to raise this turn very light when you rep a flush quite well, so it's not exactly obvious which one to go with. i'd probably just fold
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07-20-2012, 05:23 PM
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#7
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,624
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes
Hero and villain have respect for each other's game, but have gotten in several leveling wars in the past.
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Maybe this is a mistake by villain given:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes
Hero in BB calls with AhTx.
Hero blind bets $25.
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07-20-2012, 05:30 PM
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#8
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 417
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
I don't like the limp pre ( unless you limp raise fairly wide) ........ Anyway given you blind bet, got raised ( expected given hes got a pulse and got a good flop for straddle) and called with the nut blocker on flop, got what you want on the turn and your playing a villain that 1) doesn't like to get it all in without the nuts in huge pots 2)you've had history with leveling in the past. Makes it a JAM in my book. I mean would he really play a small flush like this or 2 pair given description? Your really deep and the pots already got a ton of dead money in it, you definitely have a lot of fold equity ( expect 2 pair to fold a ton, sets sometimes) and lastly your line looks rediculously strong by 5 bet jamming. He's got just enough left to fold some big/biggish hands. Plus the times he folds total air makes this profitable.
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07-20-2012, 06:18 PM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
As to pre, with a few $350-600 stacks at the table, I really don't like opening ATo from the BB all that much, and I don't like folding my BB here at all. I will occasionally use this as a spot to limp/3bet squeeze light openers.
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07-20-2012, 06:23 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,624
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
You don't like putting money in the pot with a good hand when you get called by a range you crush? Yep I hate that spot too.
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07-20-2012, 06:44 PM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
You don't like putting money in the pot with a good hand when you get called by a range you crush? Yep I hate that spot too.
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Ummm, is ATo a monster for a worse-than-UTG range? What I was referring to, though, is I don't like raising, getting called by 3 people, and having some guy with 99 jam a short stack getting me to fold.
When everybody at the table has a bit more so they're not squeeze shoving, I probably open this hand 100% of the time. But I'm sure a lot of people would still say ATo is not a great hand to be opening from the BB.
Limping here presents some good limp rr opportunities though.
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07-20-2012, 07:11 PM
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#12
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Anyway, I'm not really trying to argue that I played any part of this hand extremely well. But limping my BB I mostly think is whatever.
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07-20-2012, 07:31 PM
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#13
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centurion
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 120
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
You don't like putting money in the pot with a good hand when you get called by a range you crush? Yep I hate that spot too.
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You think ATo will crush people's calling range when he raises a straddle from early position?
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07-20-2012, 07:48 PM
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#14
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 888
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Just thought I'd post results:
My first instinct was that villain's range is polarized to nuts or air. But I had the nut blocker, so villain's range is 100% air, right? EZ shove...
Except what ended up happening is I got so confused by villain's line (I really thought he had no 3bet range when I had the Ah) that I tanked for a long time - I let the bad thoughts in, realized it would look extremely weak after tanking for so long if I shoved now, etc. Man would I feel so owned if he called me with JxKh. I was so frustrated by the way I played the hand that I just threw it away. Villain showed the QTo (both black) for a complete airball.
Lessons learned:
1) I should have had a plan for villain's 3bet before I checkraised. I was not even considering it, and that was an enormous mistake.
2) I should have just went with my instincts. I knew (was fairly sure) exactly what was going on in the hand at all times, but I didn't follow through with those intuitions.
Last edited by pocketzeroes; 07-20-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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07-21-2012, 07:17 PM
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#15
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enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 67
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Re: Stupid leveling spot with nut-flush blocker
Preflop, I think call > fold > raise. Against very aggressive villains, I think open-folding is fine.
Check the flop. This is one of the worst possible hands to bet with. You're bluffing with the best hand the majority of the time.
High OOP aggression is a tactic you sometimes want to use against weak-tight players. Against people who play back at you, it is simply a bad strategy. You exploit a loose dynamic by tightening up.
Villain's flop raise is huge, his line is credible, and you're OOP deep with a garbage hand. Snap-fold. You called because you were on tilt, end of story. Having the Ah in your hand is a ridiculous justification. Your blocker actually makes his range slightly stronger, as if it even matters.
Snap-fold to the turn bet for all the same reasons. You think villain is bluffing here because... he's a big nit? What? And because he's bluffing, you decide to... raise? With your bluff-catcher? Completely ridiculous.
Fold to the 3bet. You don't have the immediate odds to draw, and your implied odds suck because your flush will be too obvious if you hit.
Overall, it was a lively and passionate performance. Probably -EV too, if you care.
Last edited by boredatheist2; 07-21-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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