Well, it's tax time again, which for the past three years has equated to my largest downswing of each year. Always nice to get a massive downswing from the government immediately followed by the poker gods. Funny how that works. Anyway, since I'm in the abyss have a bunch of hands I want to review to sharpen up a bit. Please note that the hands I'll be posting are not all losing hands (just don't want to negatively skew results with the notions of the downswing).


Hand 1:

Villain is a solid middle aged male Asian tag. Rarely shows down and seems to pick his spots well for stabs/squeezes. Have no show down evidence to suggest that he makes big bluffs but his frequencies definitely seem to suggest that he does. Just solid/tough all around. Should see me as spewy, have 4bet folded preflop against him a couple times, and also seen me bet two streets after three betting and giving up river when a four straight came in and he donked.


Folds to him in MP and he raises to 35$, folds around to me in the bb and I defend with AKcc. We are $2k effective. Chose not to 3bet since his opening range here is very snug and I think if I 3bet I'm getting folds out of all the hands I can milk some nice value from anyway.


Flop: KJ6r (75$). I check, he bets 60$ I call.

Turn: 7d (195$) bringing back door FD, I check he bets $135 I call.

River: Tc (465$) I check he bets 350$ fairly quickly.



Hand 2:

Villain is middle aged Asian woman. A regular in the poker room, is there every single time I play in this location. Plays a tight straight forward game for the most part but can get spewy aggro when tilted or short stacked. Aggro IP. Seen her 3bet squeeze A6o and other crap, but for the most part 3bets a reasonable range. Thinks I am lag preflop and post flop/ FOS for the most part (which is probably true) which you will note from the below.

Game is 8 handed and I just lost a big pot to her an orbit before, I raised KK utg, she 3bet BTN AK, I 4bet, she shoved 1500 I called and flop came QJT. I am visibly tilted after this and snap rebuy.


On to the hand itself, I raise AKo utg folds to her on the button and she again 3bets to 110, I think and call.

Flop: KT6r (220) I check she bets $150 I call.

Turn: 6s (520$) she bets $250 I call.

River: 8h ($1,120) she thinks and bets $600.



Hero? Thoughts on preflop, flop, if you would do anything differently etc. Curious if anyone raises anywhere in either hand, felt like I couldn't really do anything but call or fold in each.


Thanks.

Hand 1 wp now fold river. I'd prob 3b pre but calling is fine.

Hand 2 Depends on what you rebought to. If it's 1k then I'm prob just 4-betting and getting it in. As played call and chop most of the time and lose the rest to AA/KK. I don't expect her to bluff a visibly tilted reg so the call is pretty close to breakeven since I don't think you beat any value hands here...

Hand 1 Id 3b. I get what you're saying but given the fact you 4b folded to this guy twice this session I think you gotta 3b with a value hand here.

As played Id either donk turn big or check raise once the backdoored draw comes in, think it's a nice spot to get some thin value from a king.

As played Id fold river.

Sorry to clarify, 4b/folded to him a couple times over the last 4-5 months or so

Hand 1: Preflop I like it, however I am fine with 3betting here aswell. The problem with hand 1 is that every thing gets there on the river. if he was barreling with 98s he got there, if he was barreling with AQs he got there. The only bluff that didnt get there is QTs as I dont expect him to turn Jx into a bluff here. Would he bet KQo so big and so fast on the river here? probably not. Your hand is pretty well disguised, Kx, however he will not think you have AK. If he thinks you are spewy he probably thinks you wouldnt fold after calling flop and turn and hence imo skews him towards value hand. He probably wouldnt bet AA this fast and this big on the river though. This leaves JJ, KK(albeit unlikely), 66, KJ, or bluffs. Since I cant find enough bluff combos to make this a call I think we have to fold. However, if you think he is quite aggro and might have Axdd, and barrel off with Jxdd then this should be a call. In a vacum though I think this is a fold.

Hand 2: I m calling here, if you lose you lose but not folding AK on this board vs aggro player in a 3bet pot. She might have AA but I still think she could have a couple bluffs combo that make this a call

1-3b pre
2-4b pre

Man, the abyss sure is a dark and dreary place.

If you are mocking me those hands are just icing on the cake. Theres a whole bunch of getting it in good hands I could be posting but I already know I played those hands well. Don't want to waste your time with bad beat stories obv.

Regarding hand 2 I went north, had over $2k on table.

OP do you always play TPTK this way... ie c/c 2 streets c/decide river?

If you do, do you think regs have picked up on it?

In a vacuum either hand is fine and river read-dependent, but since they are virtually the same hands, if you play a hand that's vulnerable to 3barrel this way always, it's a hard way to play vs preceptive regs imo.

Wasn't mocking, you have posted very abyss-y hands.

This is what happens when you start to see the darkness. You do weird things like flat AKs pre*, then flop basically the nuts AND are super underrepped, and you end up x/c, x/c, x/sighdoesthisguyreallyhaveAQhereokIcall&thengetshow nsomething******edlikeTT.

*not really weird, but you get what I mean. Id flat hand 1 pre almost always. Hand 2 I'm getting in preflop and I don't care how deep we are. I'm on tilt from the previous hand.

No. The second hand just felt off to me from the start, if there had been any calls of my raise before the 3bet, I almost always 4bet. More often than not I 4bet as well, the timing and circumstance of her 3bet just set off alarm bells in my head.

Regarding the first question, if anything I think they would have the opposite read. Most think I 3bet too much/am spewy aggro. I am however, obviously positionally aware so if I 3bet pre-flop in hand 1 he is good enough to give me credit for a big hand/he isn't going to think I'm doing that too light.

If I do happen to play AK preflop like this, I will admit that I don't c/r boards like this often so yes, c/c would be my standard. If you don't 3bet pre, would you do anything different than c/c flop here?

^ When you don't 3b AK pre then c/r KXXr dry flop, an aggressive opponent is likely to rule out AK(as well as AA obv) and sometimes cbet/3bet with KQ/weaker hands thinking that given you don't have combo draws he can blow you off your hand.

So while c/c is fine, c/r certainly has merit vs a pfr who's very aggro on the flop. You could also c/c then on a safe turn c/r. There are lots of different ways but c/c to the end in both hands suggest a pattern of passiveness that results in you having to guess for huge river bets all the time.. other regs can also pick up on the pattern and put pressure on you as well.. I don't like this type of table image for yourself.

Hand 1:

I'd c/r the turn. I don't mind the c/c line because I think he'll continue betting hands you beat as well. That T on the river is brutal, obv the only hand you beat is KQ and the sizing seems value-heavy. However, when bet/folding hands like that on the river I tend to bet 4/5 pot, knowing that any raise means I'm beat. This passive line makes the river tough. I'm calling though. If he's good enough to bet AA then props to him.

3-bet out of the BB, I'm most likely stacking off pre w/ 1k. This deep I'd put in a sizable 3-bet and most likely end up folding pre to a jam.

Hand 2:

I'm on board with the 4-bet pre. Whats with her sizing? I wish I know her bluff sizing tendencies. At a glance these bets on the turn and river are so value heavy it makes me feel like it might be a bluff. Even still, I'm folding the river.

For both hands and in general, I prefer playing AK pre real fast. These passive lines makes life so difficult w/ one-pair OOP. Plus with your loose image you end up flipping with overlay or getting it in good against non-believers a lot of the time.

Hope you run better, hands like these over and over makes me quit playing for a week.

+1

You are making this game very hard for yourself. I doubt that you can play AK that profitably OOP post that raising both pre isn't just superior move.

Hand 1:

Any idea what villain is opening? I don't hate the defend, but 3betting may be better, especially given your image.

I really dislike raising turn. I don't see the point.

Now aren't you going to be guessing for a much larger river bet?

How is raising turns with our stronger top pair hands going to make our river checking range harder to exploit? Seems to me it would de precisely the opposite.

I think you can fold the river, assuming you can rule out his offsuit AT/QT/9T combos.

Hand 2:

Fistpump 4bet. As played, call down.

^ fwiw I'd probably take a somewhat more aggro line either pre or at some point post, rarely would c/c to river.. was just getting OP to think of alternatives.

Many regs for hands like this, esp when deep vs other aggro regs have a default action to just flat AKo OOP pre because they've had experience where they 3b or 4b and lost huge pots OOP. While we've all had those experiences and it certainly makes you think twice about just default-3b AK pre when deep vs tough regs, I think paying attention to betsizing/raise sizing/cbet sizing and the %/pot odds/etc it offers vs villain's range can improve our game in spots like this a lot... without settling into passive lines like the 2 hands posted where it becomes always difficult on the river vs perceptive opponents. It is also important to think about whether villain is someone whose range become more defined if he calls the 3bet, as far as whether that allows us to bluff more on the flop, to what size, whether we're more able to c/c confidently to showdown on dry boards etc. I know what I'm saying are very general things but I think spots like this often go back to our thinking preflop and how we intended the hand to play out..

Coming from a 6max online background, I'm very comfortable with the 3bet/4bet dynamic in 100bb max games, but in deeper situations I often find myself lost.

For instance, neither villain is the type to 5bet shove light in my experience. So in hand 2 for example, are you guys really 4bet calling it off 250bb when she shoves? That seems like massive spew to me even with a tilting image, like if she shoves she will never show up with AQ there. It will be QQ+ or a chop. If she has TT or JJ, she probably flats the 4bet.

Or are you 4bet folding? Again, seems bad to me which led me to flatting pre-flop. This could be wrong that was just my thought process of the hand. Obviously if she folds to the 4-bet or calls with her 3bet bluffs that is a good situation for us but I don't see that happening given positions and my image.


Hand 1 I am way more supportive of the 3bet argument though again, 3bet shove or 3bet fold? Obviously given our dynamic he knows that I can 4bet light, but I haven't seen him do so yet. I would be way more comfortable 5bet shoving pre flop if I had already 3bet him a few times in the session and was ready for his "adjustment," but on the first hand we play of the night, in these positions, just seems awkward.

If your rarely getting shoved on, then it shouldn't weigh that heavily in your decision making process. If you're taking it down preflop and/or getting called by worse a lot, then 4betting is likely best. And if you 4bet and do get shoved on, it's pretty much just a pokerstove problem at that point.

3b/4b/5b dynamics are a billion times more aggro and tougher to play against in online 6m. And it's not like your never 200-300bb deep in these games either

Results:

Hand 1 I did end up calling down and he showed JJ. In retrospect I think it's a trivial river fold since I doubt he value bets AK. The one Kx I can have that he beats gets the on the river and he is good enough to recognize that.

Hand 2:

I called down though I tanked for awhile on the river, she ended up having AA. This one is more meh, might be a river fold since I don't see her triple barreling a tilted whale in this spot.