This thread has given me the urge to go out & bluff raise sum rivers.. lol. I feel its definitely a leak in player's minds that this dosn't happen as often as it does. It happens more than some of you think, but people who do this know when they can't be called by the other player & it goes unnoticed. I'm not in any way saying that OP should've called the river, nor am I saying that OP didnt butcher the hand from the moment he called pre. All I'm saying is that to automatically think that players (even at the 5/10 games at Commerce where I sometimes play) don't do this, is definitely a leak in your game. And your probably getting owned in some spots & dont even know it.

- NYtoCALI

I think calling is good here. Our line looks kinda spazzy. Unless villain is a nit who never raises river with a 9, this is a easy call imo. I really, really dislike bet/folding.

Ok but that's why it's important to have reads on a guy before you put yourself into a situation like this. It's not about automatically assuming players can't do this. It's about the odds that a random player you encounter in this game is capable of doing this. I would say it's a pretty low percentage. I don't play at commerce so maybe I'm wrong.

i will make a crying call here, since you are prepared to play this hand?
too bad if he has nuts.

For you to have the best hand, he essentially has to have air. I can't think of a hand an average live 5 10 player would play this way for value that you can beat. And then, to get to this point with air, he has to be the type of player capable of firing multiple barrels when the turn is a total blank. Your line looks very strong, so he has to be sophisticated to know that and still try to bluff you knowing that you know that he knows that.

Given there's no history here to go on, I fold until I see evidence of his aggro monkey ness or super duper sophistication.

Hey Coffmaer, You are 100% correct & I completely agree with your statement. I was never implying that it is correct to do this on a regular basis, because the situation needs to be perfect for it to work & you need to be pretty certain that...

A. You are certain that Villain has a strong hand, but not a strong enough hand that can call.
B. We need to know that Villain is capable of making pretty big lay downs.
C. Our image in this spot signifies that we would never be doing this as a bluff.
D. We are representing a large enough combination of hands that would be played this way & would be making this raise for value.

So like I said, these plays are reserved for very rare occasions. But the reason that I posted this was because OP was indeed telling the truth about a lot of players believing that nobody (at Commerce) would do this as a bluff. Therefore, when the situation is perfectly set up for this, it can be very profitable because you would get a fold often enough to make this a +EV play.

- NYtoCALI