QQ 400+ bb's deep 2/5NL vs. lag

[Pots-For-Sale]

Game: 2/5 NL usually btn straddles and tons of LP fish in this game.

Villain in this hand is somewhat competent lag. I thought at first he was just a donk with a shortish stack in this game he was over shipping flops with draws and showing/laughing, ect... One relevant hand about one orbit before this hand hero 3 bet squeezed from the blinds against another opponent and original raiser and this villain both called. I cbet a TT4 ss flop and original raiser folded and this guy shipped 850$ into the pot. I called with AK high and it held up against K7ss. He was kinda tilted and reloaded for 3k. Then this hand came up about an orbit or 2 later and he has been raising a lot of pots since then...

Hero: ~2300
Villain: ~3000

Action folds to villain and he opens to 35 in mp, one caller and folds to hero in sb with QQ and I 3bet to 140. Folds back around to villain who 4 bets to 390, or 250 more... Hero......??? Should I be getting it in here based on the dynamics described or 5bet/folding, or flatting and playing post OOP????

[TimeBomb]

Originaly I wanted to 5bet/fold, I think we are too deep to get it in here. I don't mind folding, and if you 5bet small I think villian is never folding. I know villian seems to be a maniac I just don't meet many who will 4bet light, if you are lucky he has ak and will very likely 6bet stuff on you or fold jj/all garbage unless you make it small. Also it seems there is no straddle in this pot otherwise I think getting it in would be fine even this deep. Villian may have been playing wreckless with shortstack but will he really do that with 2k+ eff? Maybe that's how he plays, gets everyone to think hes a spewtard short to stack you deep.

[bluefingin]

I think your 3-bet sizing is too big. I make it 105-110ish here, you're playing OOP extremely deep and I can't see any reason to further inflate the pot. This also allows us to squeeze light more cheaply and still have a balanced range.

[TucoRamirez]

call is the only play. 3 bet may be a bit too big too.

[blueheel23]

If we call here, are we doing it to set mine? What do we do when we have an overpair on dry board? B/F, C/C, C/R oop?

I'm fine with 3 bet sizing given raise and call already.

[Armandinho]

3bet size is good, now call

[bamboo6386]

Originally Posted by TimeBomb

Originaly I wanted to 5bet/fold, I think we are too deep to get it in here. I don't mind folding, and if you 5bet small I think villian is never folding. I know villian seems to be a maniac I just don't meet many who will 4bet light, if you are lucky he has ak and will very likely 6bet stuff on you or fold jj/all garbage unless you make it small. Also it seems there is no straddle in this pot otherwise I think getting it in would be fine even this deep. Villian may have been playing wreckless with shortstack but will he really do that with 2k+ eff? Maybe that's how he plays, gets everyone to think hes a spewtard short to stack you deep.

this is really bad. 5 bet /fold QQ? huh? I'd rather just fold or 5bet/call.

op: before you 3 bet you should know the dynamic well enough to know what to do against a 4 bet here. I'm thinking either 5 bet shove or small 5 bet to induce if this guy is spewy.

otherwise, I'd rather just flat pre and play trappy poker against him.

[bamboo6386]

3 bet size is not too big. if anything it might be a little small. It's less than pot. And when you are playing deep and oop, you want to lessen the SPR.

So, if you guys are calling this to play oop, it's too stack off any flop that doesn't contain A or K, or is it to set mine or what? I really don't think calling is the right play here.

[firefoxmaz11]

3b size is finee. flat, whats the flop.

[Pots-For-Sale]

Originally Posted by bamboo6386

3 bet size is not too big. if anything it might be a little small. It's less than pot. And when you are playing deep and oop, you want to lessen the SPR.

So, if you guys are calling this to play oop, it's too stack off any flop that doesn't contain A or K, or is it to set mine or what? I really don't think calling is the right play here.

Im kinda stumped here that is why I posted this. Im in the same camp as above^^^ if im flatting the 4bet is it to set mine? Am I stacking off on any flop with out an A or K. I hate this spot so much. Its especially difficult being OOP. And I think when I flat this 4 bet my hand is sorta face up to anyone with a brain.... and I like my 3 bet sizing. I wanna try to inflate the pot pre with these stack sizes plus cuts down his IO since we're OOP. I probably could have even made it up to 150....

I ended up 5 betting to 400 more, which in retrospect was way to big... he looks at me and insta snap sticks in his stack of black and says 2000... lol now what??

[bamboo6386]

you can't fold now. you only have 1500 left right? and the more I think about it, given description and dynamic. I'd rather just 5 bet ship, because it looks weaker and could get called by JJ or AK.

[blueheel23]

Well, what is your read now. I think someone with AA/KK here probably tanks a little bit to do some hollywood not snap shove on you. I've actually never really seen AA or KK snap shove in this situation unless the player is a complete fish. Given that, I'm putting it in but I think it's read dependant at this point. He could easily have AK here. However, if his range is as tight as QQ+/AK here, you still have like 40% equity so it's a pretty easy jam.

[bluefingin]

Unless our 3-bet range is super wide here, villain is getting the right price to set mine regardless of our 3-bet being 105 or 155. Why would we want to inflate the pot to a slightly larger size which makes it more likely we stack off incorrectly postflop?

Trying to lower the SPR by making an oversized 3-bet when you are 400BB's deep doesn't make any sense. Maybe 200BB deep there would be some rationale behind it.

[bamboo6386]

Originally Posted by bluefingin

Unless our 3-bet range is super wide here, villain is getting the right price to set mine regardless of our 3-bet being 105 or 155. Why would we want to inflate the pot to a slightly larger size which makes it more likely we stack off incorrectly postflop?

Trying to lower the SPR by making an oversized 3-bet when you are 400BB's deep doesn't make any sense. Maybe 200BB deep there would be some rationale behind it.

who says we're more likely to stack off with QQ? why don't you learn how to play postflop and charge this guy for having a weaker wider range.

[bluefingin]

Originally Posted by bamboo6386

who says we're more likely to stack off with QQ? why don't you learn how to play postflop and charge this guy for having a weaker wider range.

More money in pot = we are forced to stack off more often.

Our range is heavily weighted towards big pairs and a smart villain will be able to play nearly perfectly against us postflop, especially this deep.