wondering how you guys play this type of hand in 2016.

5/10 commerce game is typical loose passive with a few solid players in the game. villain has around $1050 to start the hand but lots of other deep stacks around $1500 at the table. i cover everyone in this hand.

limp from a rec (he's 1500 deep), folds to villain in LP he looks like a pro (mid 20's hoodie quiet) but from out of town from australia i think he makes it 50. haven't seen him do too much i think he prob plays a pretty tight solid game. folds to me in sb i have AJdd and i call. bb calls he's a rec as well (he has around 2k) as does limper so we go 4 ways.

flop J23cc. Q1. how do you guys think we should play our hand first to act here against these described opponents?

anyways i checked and the other guys checked to villain he bets out 130. Q2. what do you guys think we should do here? i'm open to all options.

i decided to just call the bet. bb folded but the rec limper called the 130 as well.

turn: os4. Q3. what do you think we should do here being first to act again against these 2 guys w/ these stacks?

i decided to check again limper checked and villain bets 380. Q4. what do you guys think about now?

i decided to call again. limper thought about it for awhile and flings in the chips so his hand is pretty obv i think its pretty easy to play perfectly against him but what about villain!

river: osK.

i decide to check i think its my only option now w/ the way i played my hand. limper checks quickly and villain shoves all in for just under 500. Q5. now what?

I don't really think there's much advantage to checking the flop. The PFR probably isn't gonna cbet super light 4-way against two fish, and even when he does, we're not able to squeeze the fish between our action, so we'll mostly feel obligated to flat to string others along, and allowing PFR to act before committing money doesn't really help us narrow his range in any helpful way. Pretty much the worst case scenario happened in terms of strengthening PFR's range (3/4 pot flop, went to turn three ways and he continued on turn with 3/4 pot), and folding turn is still absurd. I'm not too worried about balance either since this is such a protected pot and villain is probably just a solid out-of-towner anyway.

As played, I think you can fold river and save yourself 50bbs. It's hard to imagine how you're even winning 1/5th of the time.

Folding turn is definitly not absurd.

You can also lead flop if you want to play some pretty exploitive poker where you will get a lot of value from worse from the monkeys in between you and villain and villain will pretty much tell you exactly what he has.

I realize this sounds borderline betting for information but it's not at all. You're just value betting and if a tight solid player who 5xd pre raises your lead then you are beat. Otherwise you are building value vs. the fish.

What about call flop lead bet/fold turn? That way we get to see if the two guys ahead of us were trying to trap on the flop, saving us an extra bet if we raise/folded.

Villain will probably shut it down OTT with hands worse than a Jack, so checking just gives everyone a free chance to realize their equity.

This is a hand that is solidly in my 3b range from the sb vs lp raises. Esp when he isoes the limper he should be somewhat wide. I'd make it 185 or so and expect to ship the 75$ or so in there pre alot
Not sure what to do post and my line would be pretty similar-but your hi up in your pretty capped range and not rly sure what other hands you have to call with other than say kj and rando sets. (You prolly fold kjo)

Yes, you can 3bet this hand when you want to.

Q1) This is a great board for a SB to lead into ... With the draws out there you could go as much as $160 since this is multi-way.

Q2) AP I like to just call the Flop ... and then lead the safe Turns OOP. I could raise here IP some of the time.

Q3) Pot=500 eff=870 ... Lead out for 280+ and consider folding to shoves. This may not be optimal if you think someone will shove a flush draw here as well as their good holdings.

Q4) AP .. 4x is not the best card and we need to consider sets, QQ and straights. We also have a player behind us yet to act and this is a pretty decent sized 'go away' bet and there is very little we beat that is going to do this (KJ/double draws). Probably folding if I can find the button. GL

After an offline discussion with Renton, I think I've come around to checking flop. I believe I underestimated how often the PFR is cbetting air.

A tight solid player who 5x iso'd pre? Cbetting air into 4 players, with 2 (maybe 3?) of them being perceived spots? No, you're not underestimating how often he cbets air.

And if you ever estimate he has an air raising range otf, you're wrong. Very rarely do I make black and white claims like this in these threads but of this I am pretty certain.

que?

I check/call this on the flop always. Not sure if I more like leading turn smallish or checking, but I definitely would fold to 380 USD bet size. I think there's a reasonably large subset of the reg population against which it is an extremely easy fold, and it's probably somewhere between a close fold and a close call vs the rest of the population. It wouldn't take many reads for me to clarify my position on what to do vs this guy, but with only the given info I would fold.

for me, it is read dependent on whether on not villian thinks you are a rec and could be thin value betting something like KJ on turn. As played with no other info, I fold turn

i like this thinking for leading flop. if this was 3 ways i think i like leading flop more but this went 4 ways i didn't think villain would bet into us w/o something he likes.

i like this also. i thought turn was a great card for me to lead its really hard for me to get raised here w/o being beat from either opponents and i think i get looked up a lot w/ a turn lead on this card. but ya i agree w/ your reasoning.

i don't really like 3 betting pre w/ this hand in my position. stacks are really weird (i'm 100 bbs with villain) and i really wanted to see a flop w/ my hand esp with the limper whose 100% calling the raise but folding to my 3bet. but ya the interesting thing i thought was that my range when i get to the river is about as best as it gets but the way the hand went down it looks like both me and the rec missed everything on the river so its a real good spot for this guy to take the pot down w/ a shove.

1. i thought about leading it may have been best since villain is a tight solid player and the rest are recs i think i missed a lo of value w/o leading.

2. i think leading turn may be best if i ck/call flop.

3. ya lead/folding turn against this lineup i think works well.

4. ya but i think leading turn is better than ck/calling.

interesting a lot of you guys like folding turn. i thought turn ck/call would be pretty standard in 2016 but the more i look at it i think i like folding more now.

i think river is prob the least interesting part of this hand. i def thought i was beat a ton but you don't think I'm good even 1/5 times? river is a pretty big brick and if villain is ever 2 barreling he always has to shove this river against us.

This is the opposite of how I would approach this spot. If you don't see villain cbetting air, then there isn't much advantage to checking.

I feel like the most important part of the lead is actually getting value from the fish and not enabling a free card. If the reg comes along, we're screwed and that's an afterthought. Leading seems fine.

I like folding turn, we have something like 35 % vs the regs betting range. I don't think our odds get better multiway at all, the fish might have already hit or hit the river and to add to that, there's not much rivers where we can extract value and the reg can still bluff pretty much correct amount of times on the river easily. Multiway I feel like AJ here is actually a lot behind regs range (contains a lot of overpairs, some draws) + fish's range (a lot of draws, some hands that have hit turn or even on flop).

I like 3-betting this hand pre also.

Fold turn. I think raising turn as a bluff is better than calling. I think leading flop is really, really bad.

Both of those statements were horrendously inaccurate imo.

Although I agree that folding turn is probably best against a well balanced player who only has overpairs and a couple double barrells with like the NFD or 2 overs, it makes absolutely no sense to raise turn as a bluff when we have less than 3x the bet left behind.

Flop lead has a lot of merit. Denies free equity, get to see what both rec players do before we are forced to commit more money after V acts -- in essence it denies V the ability to make many plays given the action. Once somebody leads for ~130ish and there's a call, his options are to leverage his stack and raise it to $400 or so, or fold. With a flush draw on the board he's going to get shoved on fairly often, so I don't expect him to squeeze the flop with air very often.

That being said, we become more susceptible to bluff raises and floats if neither of the two rec players inbetween call. In theory it's semi-exploitable to lead here with AJ, but as long as we're leading other portions of our range such as NFD and sets, it should be fine.

I don't like this approach of blindly calling down multiway and hoping you have the best hand and that it holds up.

Pre is fine. Check call flop, check call turn, not sure about river given stack size (leave it to the math guys). Flop decision isn't particularly close, I think turn starts to get a little tricky, I don't mind a fold but I'm probably calling in game. I would lead turn sometimes but not often depending on player tendencies; readless, probably check call.