The game is 5/10 NL. I am playing with $1000. I am in the BB with 89.
v1-Former limit pro turned nl pro opens utg to 40. Has me covered.
There are two callers including the button. I call.
Flop 8 8 5. Checks around.
Turn 10, I lead 130. V1 calls, rest fold.
River q. I take about 30 seconds and check. He shoves for around 800.

I tanked pretty hard. In hindsight my friend and I ended up with differing opinions, and both of us thought it wasn't close. Just want to see what you all think.

if you guys dont have any history together this is a snap call.

Agree with snap - as Cat implies there are a few nits that I might fold this to but without having that read the money has to go in.

How often is he bluffing? Ever? What could he be bluffing with? How often is he value betting with worse? How often does he show up with a better hand?

Which of these is most prevalent in making this a snap call?

lol what does he put you on? your hand looks super weak it looks like you tried to take a stab at the pot on the turn then gave up on the river when you checked. if he has a monster here hes not ridiculously overbetting in this spot when your hand looks like a T at best to him. as long as there is no spewy history btwn you two this is such a ridic easy call.

OP: Fold pre.

How quickly did he shove? How high stakes did he play limit?

I don't think this is as easy a call as everyone is saying it is, but it's definitely less easy of a fold.

Some notes: I'd expect a limit pro to slowplay less on the flop, so probably fewer 55/TT/QQ combos to worry about than average. If we're beat, I'd expect to see J9s, but I'm not sure a limit pro would open that UTG?

Looks like I talked myself into a call, but I'm still struggling to come up with bluff combos, and the limit pro-based assumptions I'm making about him having fewer value combos would also incline me to think he's less likely to have mediocre showdown value to turn into a bluff, and less likely to turn it into a bluff given the chance.

Were the T and the Q the same suit, and is he aggro enough to v-bet QT this large on the river?

Man this spot is interesting as hell. Do you have anything more than "limit pro turned NL pro"?

I probably end up calling after taking this line, though I probably just bet the river.

I'm thinking something like 99, 66, 77, 9T, TJ, maybe AK or AJ.

I think without history his overbet indicates more nutted hands than not, but finding it hard to find his range that doesnt bet the flop.

If he isn't a total spaz his bluff sizing on the river shouldn't be that big, should be around 240-400ish. The stuff makes me think he is making it look fos and trying to get called by 8x.

Then again he should be betting qq and tt on the flop so....

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Tough to say much w/o more info IMO. Could be a snap call or an easy fold. What is your image? History together? Tell us more about V, pls - is he capable of raising UTG w/, say, 78? How long since his limit to NL conversion? I assume no back door flush came, etc?

the fact that he's a limit pro makes me think that he's even more likely to come out and bet TT and QQ on the flop.

i think checking flop is fine. lead turn good i like a river lead.

as played i call.

I would say these are all super ambitious given what he did on respective streets, with the exception of maybe 9 10.

More info: he shoved within about 10 seconds.

He played limit at higher stakes than 5/10 no limit.

I've played with him two sessions before and he owned me both times. One time i check called bottom set on a qj10 board all three streets and he showed ak. the other was a weird scenario we had just broken into a 4 handed game and first hand i 3-bet his open with j j/got it in when he 4 bet k k with with like 100 ish bb. I mucked both when he opened up the nuts and he did not see either.

my general read on him is solid. I'd say this bet could be largely based on what he thinks of me, which i really don't know. i assume it may be on the stationy side given our brief history.

Given that history, I think it's a fold. I wouldn't expect a former limit player to bet 2x as a bluff here, even though you don't rep much.

Calling pre is std/fine. Folding would be pretty nitty
As played probably lead/f riv

Not saying he is likely to play these hands this way, but if he DOES show up with a bluff, I expect it to be with one of those hands. I can't really think of ANY hands that I would expect him to play this way most of the time.

He "owned" you in these hands?

Is villain a large man?

I'm calling because:

A) I expect most players to bet overpairs on this flop 4 handed.

B) his sizing is more often a bluff than for value against what we are repping.

C) people playing smaller than they used to are spazzes.

D) he's turning Tx into a bluff/chop block a decent amount

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I lead flop, but that might not be correct with your image (idk).

I also lead river as played, but if your image makes it correct to check flop, then check/call river is probably best.

***I don't like your tank/check. This would make me shove for value vs shove as a bluff.

edit: your river tank might be enough to make this a fold if villain is good/perceptive.

correction: villain is a former NL pro turned limit pro if it's who your previously posted hand was against. He can definitely check flop with TT and QQ. He never peels AK ott either with 2 players behind. If he's bluffing it's with Tx and i'm not sure how often he bluffs with those hands.

agreed he's not floating/bluff-catching A high on turn with 2 behind, but why is he checking flop with TT or QQ with 2 behind?

As played I fold because I don't see many 2x pot all in bluffs esp in multiway pots. I would bet turn less 100 is good for 160 pot and then 200-250 on river. I'd lean more towards calling river all in assuming vill is capable of bluffing here.

AA, not the same villain as my previous post. Dgaf ou were on track it's a large man but not JD if that's who ur thinking of.

If he's good it's a snapcall. Against the average 5/10nl live reg it's a snapfold. Seriously I'd be much richer than I am today if I stopped calling pot+ river bets because "he never has the nuts here and betting thin for value seems awful". Most of the time their thought process is "I have a value hand if I bet small it looks like value so I'll bet big and he'll think it's a bluff". Almost all 5/10nl pros are super imbalanced towards value hands on the river when they bet pot+.

Also agree with DGAF how did he "own" you by coolering you twice? I'd own a lot of people if I got KK vs. JJ 4-handed and broadway vs. sets regularly.

Pretty sure it's my boy. Nice/funny/aggro?

He had J9?

Haha if he had j9 he played this hand terribly.