This is a hand that occured several years ago during the WSOP and it's still bugging me. I was playing 5/10 uncapped at the Wynn. The villian in question was a young Aussie kid who I had been previously been playing with at the Venetian and we just happpened to be at the Wynn one day. We never clashed much during our sessions but I observed him at being fairly agressive pre flop but a bit more passive ABC post flop. He won many hands without a showdown or had the best hand at showdown. It did see him try to run a bluff once when he raised on the button with KJ and a fish basically called him down with middle pair. Otherwise he appeared pretty solid. He said his plan was to grind cash to try to pay for the main event. I would imagine his view of me was also solid. I don't think he ever saw me get out of line or do anything spazzy.

In the hand both the hero and villian are deep - about 6k+ and the other villian had about 1.5k. I will do my best to remember bet sizes.

V1 opens in EP to $40
Hero raises in LP with KK to $120
Aussie calls on button
V1 calls

Flop = 923 rainbow (or some kind of very dry 9 high flop)

V1 bets $125
Hero raises to $350
Aussie raises to $1500

V1 Folds.

Hero ???

So I'm I can't call. I can shove or fold. I put V1 on JJ

He either has AA or QQ. No way he has 99. Sick spot.

BTW - you never see this kind of aggression in lower limit games. Hands are much more face up.

Why are you ruling out calling? The worst play by far is shoving. I'm guessing from your post that you probably haven't played 5/10 much or if you have that you haven't done too well at it.

To answer the question you pretty much have to fold here unless you have a really good reason not to. You said he plays ABC post-flop except when he triple barrel bluffed KJ in a pot that probably wasn't too big (assuming it wasn't big bc he got called down by middle pair). He's putting 1500 in with 4500 left back in a 5/10 game and plays ABC post flop and you think shoving is an option? Lol. Shoving is hardly ever an option in this spot against anyone unless you enjoy freerolling yourself.

Then what is the point of calling OOP? He is obviously just gonna jam the turn. I just can't see him overplaying QQ like this although there is a slim chance of it I suppose.

You really think that shoving and freerolling yourself is better than calling and then calling turn? Really have to ask the point of calling?

Tell me how plan A (call/call) and plan B (shove flop) work out if he has T5o.

Because he is never doing this with 105 off. Or at least not often enough to just call. I know enough about how this guy plays that it really comes down to if he has AA or not. I suppose there is also a slight chance he as AK, but again I can't see him getting out of line enough to make contuing with the hand +EV.

Wouldn't he 4bet AA preflop this deep? You said he is pretty straightforward so he probably would not get tricky and flat it especially with these stack sizes. What he would possibly flat is 22, 33 or 99. Why is it so inconceivable that he has a set here? I would just fold this flop to the villain you described.

Why did you raise the flop?

This is what I was thinking. Seems like a perfect flop to just call and let V continue to bluff or value own himself.

So why does villain either have AA or QQ again?

3betting a dry low flop 600bb deep vs a face up overpair is never ever a set /s

If hero hand is face up TT-AA, why wouldn't V raise a set? Seems like a good spot knowing it's going to be super hard for hero to fold an overpair on that board.

given stacks he can obv have 99

/s means sarcasm

OP says he never has 99. The logic for that ...?

Yes how does V have either AA or QQ here again?

AA is possible but i you would expect V to flat flop with QQ.

Basic objective look at the hand.
Look at your line from his perspective...you think he views you as solid as you havent been getting out of line, you 3bet in LP...then despite getting cold called by him on Button you proceed to re-raise flop...clearly you are repping an overpair.

Then, as someone who has never bothered to tangle with you before, he raises putting you on AK or trying to make you fold an overpair? With V1 in the hand as well? I dont think so.

'BTW - you never see this kind of aggression in lower limit games. Hands are much more face up.' - exactly. So this is pretty much always a set, maybe a slow played AA.

Just a ridiculous spot to attempt a bluff. Big difference trying a huge bluff on someone who has been showing such aggression on a dry as **** board, than a triple barrel bluff where i assume he had the betting lead and position the whole way, against a fish

I often wonder what Aussie would have done if I just called flop. It was also kinda strange the V1 lead at the flop. I saw it as a probing bet and to protect his equity if I had AK. I like raising the flop here because I am ok with just taking it down now. I don't care if my hand is face up. If I could turn it over I would, lol. There is already $350 in the pot and 5/10 was a high stakes game for me at this time and so I didn't want to risk loosing a pot if a face card comes on the turn or river that brings a set because I just called. V1 is never bluffing, and I don't think button is either. Aussie knows I am capable of folding big hands but I don't know if that means he is bluffing. 4 betting the flop is super strong, so I decided it just wasnt worth the risk and if he pulled a move on me then nice play, but more often than not he had me beat. On the other hand if he knows I have QQ-AA, why raise me. He had position and I will keep firing away. Why encourage a fold? So this is why I have that small doubt in my head that I could have had the best had and thats why I still bugs me. It could have been a huge pot!

If he was aggro pre like you said, and raised/squeezed the button then I like flatting pre here, esp. given stacks.

You can def. flat this flop esp with him behind.

Also why would a hand from many years ago bother you to this day.. do you not play very often?

When there is a "slim chance" of someone "overplaying" the best possible hand we can beat then we have a really hard decision! I mean what if we fold and it was the "slim chance" that time, that would really suck

unless you think he calls a flop ship with AK (lol), one of these 3 statements directly contradicts each other

Why cant he have 99 again?

Hero played it fine IMO. Now fold to flop 3bet.

Fold, its just to easy for villan to crush us in the long run if we are getting our overpair in when villan raises his sets againt us.

If you somehow think putting in 6k in a non straddled 5/10 game with kk on this flop is viable then I'd like to play in your games.