http://www.yourdailymedia.com/video/watch/3065/

shame I don't know how to embed video, GL to everyone in 2012

haha nice vid, so in place to start this thread
gl everyone 2012, hope we see FTP running back again, and our monies

2nd

^Liar.

Happy New Year Everyone! Anyone do anything excessively crazy?

Pretty sure I win most crazy NYE, drank an entire pint of beer and stayed home so my dogs wouldn't get freaked by the fireworks! Ballin out of control!

lol I spent it sick at home getting crushed at online poker. Head just feels like it's gonna explode might have to actually see doctor if this doesn't get better soon I'm supposed to leave on a ski trip/aussie millions after that in 5 days.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/0...anim-11718.htm

not really anything new but some vague inference of a timeline

So should we be expecting 100% re-payment at this point?

Also, has anyone kept up with potential regulation for USA?

I would be happy if this whole mess can be resolved before end of 2012.

Happy? I'd be completely thrilled.

Hey guys. Hope you are all doing well. Trying to make it outside of poker so any motivation you guys could spare would be appreciated

I haven't been on 2p2 much at all but I am confused about the rate of FTP$. Not really looking to invest since I already have large exposure against my will but it seems that this market isn't very efficient. I know that there are big barriers to entry (legal uncertainty, perceived long timeline, lack of verification, trust issues, etc) but the market rate doesn't really seem to reflect the information available and it seems that buying has come to a standstill (I assume that the people - if any - buying up FTP$ are trying to do so quietly, but the consistent attempts to sell seem consistent with a lack of action). Thoughts?

I think there's just a lack of buyers out there. I bought a good amount when it was much cheaper and although I think there's money still to be made buying I'm not really in a financial position to do so. Also there's the part where if the seller is not reputable there will be no amount that is +ev for both sides when the buyer has to account for the risks of getting scammed. Most reputable people either sold early or are just going to ride it out now that I'm relatively sure we're 90%+ to see our money. I think that's the reason it's not going for 75-80% nowadays because most people selling who are legit aren't broke and don't want to take much of a hit at all with their FTP money and the ones who are selling are the guys that are desparate and don't have the rep to sell at higher thus are the most risk to buy from, as it's entirely possible they're already in debt or don't have the FTP money or aren't going to pay you when they get it or w/e. So yeah I think a combination of most of those things.

Market is very inefficient because those in a position to buy are already heavily exposed. I would def be a buyer at 60c from reputable people if I had more liquid funds right now but I can't risk exposing myself any further right now cos I wanna buy a house in 2012. If I was in your shoes with what I believe your current financial situation to be I would be buying from reputable people at 60-65c.
One thing I would say is the deal needs to have certain things in it, such as a condition that if their is some kind of play through requirement for ROW players that they are compelled to do this and you are not responsible for any in game losses as a result. Also that if they receive any kind of payment as reparation that it goes directly to you no matter the source or amount and that you are at front of the queue from people selling part balances. i.e. if someone sells 50% of balance and they only get paid out 25% in liquidation then you get all of the payout. Probably some other clauses I'm missing but basically that contract needs to be watertight.

I'd also probably wanna see copies of their tax returns and a current bank statement too before I bought unless they are insanely reputable and even then I'd prob still ask and check that the account is registered in their name and not their mum's or something.

No reputable person would sell at even close to 65c though that's the problem. Would you buy at 80c?

No I think there isn't enough of a risk premium for a buyer at 80c. I'd consider 80c-85c to be about neutral EV so I'd want at least a 10c premium on that as a buyer.

FWIW I would sell my exposure at 80-85c

if anyone wants it i'd be happy to sell at .80 simply so I could max out my retirement contribution this year without destroying my current bankroll. At the rate this saga is unfolding I'm going to be in a ****ty spot in april where I'm probably not going to be able to max out my IRA contribution because I simply don't have enough liquid cash outside of my bankroll. That being said maybe I'll run hot for the first quarter of 2012 and it won't be a concern.

in general I agree with you guys though. I don't think anyone buying is going to buy at more than .50 and I don't think anyone with a lot to sell that can be trusted is going to want to sell at less than .75.

Don't you know the gov't is going to steal/inflate away our retirement accounts?

Buy physical gold/silver. I'm kidding about the first part. (kind of)

serious questions

what makes gold a safe investment and what makes it valuable?

If **** hits the fan (major war, financial meltdown, catastrophe, asteroids) what use will people have for gold?

Gold has a proven track record and seems stable in the short term but I don't get the market. gold gained popularity and value back in the day because we liked shiny stuff. what exactly do we need it for moving forward?

They can't print more gold

lol give me some credit please. i realize that but im talking long term. from what i understand the value of gold seems to be determined by demand and the demand for gold isn't based on any need or use, but just public opinion. what if public opinion changes or the world has bigger problems? things like water and steel would seem a lot more valuable than gold at that point

fwiw by that logic guns and ammo probably a better long term investment. I'm not sure that gold and silver are actually safe value in that they increasingly have no real value in the actual world, especially as economic transactions become almost purely electronic.

but also I can't deduct purchases of gold and silver from my taxes. Biggest value of putting money away for retirement (assuming you think they'll still be a similar world economy in 40 years) are the current tax deductions you can take. That alone makes the contribution probably the best use of your extra cash on a yearly basis.

i thought there was gold in virtually every computer or piece of electronics, which would make it increasingly valuable.