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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 03-22-2015, 02:34 AM   #101
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Hey guys, I don't wanna make a whole thread about this but something happened at the table last night that really pissed me off.

It was a 5/10 game and the 7 and 8 seat were friends. The 8 seat used to play 1/2 with me, we both moved up to 2/5 at around the same time, and are now both playing 5/10. Anyway, the 7 seat is an obvious boss who it seems is coaching the 8 seat. The following happens:

Seat 7 opens, seat 8 flats, I 3bet IP, they both call. The actual board doesn't matter, what matters is they both checked to me on flop I cbet, they both called. Turn checked through, and on riv the 8 seat leads for ~1/3 pot. I fold and the 7 seat agonizes, tanks for a while, and folds. IMMEDIATELY after, before the 8 seat can muck his hand, the 7 seat grabs the 8 seat's cards, peaks at them, and then chucks them into the muck as fast as he can before I can enforce show one show all. The dealer said the hand is irretrievable and that it's too late now.

After the game broke I asked the 7 seat wtf that was about, and he said some BS like ''in these games, people show their neighbor their cards all the time...it's just something that's done, it's not a big deal''

Is this true or do I have a right to be pissed?

sorry for derailing you guys' movie discussion lol
Just let it go. The douche who crys "show one show all!" Is usually more tilting/bad for the game than the one who shows their neighbor their cards.

However if this becomes a habit/they start consistently playing squeezed pots together and doing this etc I will say something. First time I just let it go though.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:55 PM   #102
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Is this true or do I have a right to be pissed?
Don't cbet air unless A+ texture + backdoors and raise/bomb river. I'd be very suspect if this line happened at a suspicios frequency, but as played they are just openly ghey (NTTAWWT), and you shouldn't worry.

Would be way more weary if he didn't obviously look at cards but instead 20 seconds after hand he sends a text and friends phone lights up.

Even then though they are probably circle jerking to their awesomeness (again NTTAWWT)
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:11 PM   #103
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

I wouldn't let it bother me unless my cards were getting flipped.

On a side note I hit my first free roll ever in live nlh. The pot wasn't big but I still fistpumped. Obviously 30 mins later I get 2 outed for a bigger pot but at least now I have 1 less thing to complain about.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:43 PM   #104
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

<<< never hits free rolls.

They are always ludicrous ones too like AQJT on A3TK vs. a bare QJxx that fist pump gets it in.
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:34 AM   #105
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Originally Posted by oh-nahhh View Post
Hey guys, I don't wanna make a whole thread about this but something happened at the table last night that really pissed me off.

It was a 5/10 game and the 7 and 8 seat were friends.......

After the game broke I asked the 7 seat wtf that was about, and he said some BS like ''in these games, people show their neighbor their cards all the time...it's just something that's done, it's not a big deal''

Is this true or do I have a right to be pissed?

sorry for derailing you guys' movie discussion lol
If he needs to look at his student's cards then most likely they didn't collude against you. However if something similar happens again then you should have a word with the coach and let him know that for his own benefit, it's best if he behaves with his student at the table as he would with everyone else, otherwise people might begin to suspect something between them that may not actually be happening..
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Old 03-24-2015, 01:14 AM   #106
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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<<< never hits free rolls.

They are always ludicrous ones too like AQJT on A3TK vs. a bare QJxx that fist pump gets it in.
It only took me about 15k hrs of live play to do it, so have faith. Bbj, your next!
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Old 03-24-2015, 01:23 AM   #107
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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<<< never hits free rolls.

They are always ludicrous ones too like AQJT on A3TK vs. a bare QJxx that fist pump gets it in.
How much did you profit in the hand?

What's your (estimated) expectation per hand in that game?
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:19 AM   #108
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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How much did you profit in the hand?

What's your (estimated) expectation per hand in that game?
Heh I was exaggerating for comedic purposes but I really do miss some sick free rolls in that game (and what is more tilting is how people fist pump get in like a zillion bb's re-re-re-re potting with bare nut hands) and from the basic gist of what I've learned free rolling folks should be one of your main objectives and that begins with preflop hand selection.

For education I recommened "Pot limit Omaha Poker" by Jeff Hwang (which is a cool / easy read if you like poker) and if you have a CR subscription Brystmar has some great stuff for beginning at the micros which is as close to live play as you can get (maybe not at the super high stakes where you have a few crushers?)

I definitely barely know what I'm doing in game but when I read literature / watch videos I keep up well so I think it's just a matter of playing a zillion hands (which I dont) and getting the feel. Right now I only play when forced to and even then only stay for a bit. Expectation in mixed game is probably even, which was my original goal, LOL. I play somewhat tight, make love to position, and only 3bet premiums when short or super deep...otherwise trying to flop nuts. It's already hard to win w/o sd a ton in a FR game, give everyone 4 cards and you'd better be snug.

The sick thing about PLO is I get it in with a monster, villain shows some medium strength hand that I have dominated one way, I lose, I rage plug in the hands into propokertools, and see that we were 58/42. That's what keeps me from playing the main game here.
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:20 AM   #109
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Probably just punishment for getting such a ridiculous hand pre. Besides if players in your game are that bad I'm sure you are doing well in it. Plo is such a fun and frustrating game anyways.
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:26 AM   #110
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Heh I was exaggerating for comedic purposes but I really do miss some sick free rolls in that game (and what is more tilting is how people fist pump get in like a zillion bb's re-re-re-re potting with bare nut hands) and from the basic gist of what I've learned free rolling folks should be one of your main objectives and that begins with preflop hand selection.

For education I recommened "Pot limit Omaha Poker" by Jeff Hwang (which is a cool / easy read if you like poker) and if you have a CR subscription Brystmar has some great stuff for beginning at the micros which is as close to live play as you can get (maybe not at the super high stakes where you have a few crushers?)

I definitely barely know what I'm doing in game but when I read literature / watch videos I keep up well so I think it's just a matter of playing a zillion hands (which I dont) and getting the feel. Right now I only play when forced to and even then only stay for a bit. Expectation in mixed game is probably even, which was my original goal, LOL. I play somewhat tight, make love to position, and only 3bet premiums when short or super deep...otherwise trying to flop nuts. It's already hard to win w/o sd a ton in a FR game, give everyone 4 cards and you'd better be snug.

The sick thing about PLO is I get it in with a monster, villain shows some medium strength hand that I have dominated one way, I lose, I rage plug in the hands into propokertools, and see that we were 58/42. That's what keeps me from playing the main game here.
The great thing about even the high limit Plo games is usually the good players aren't that good. They are usually just good nlh/mixed game players who are good at poker in general but only have a minimal to moderate at best understanding for the game. The lower limit Plo games are a joke if I had the patience to play in them consistently it would be my most profitable game, but of course first I need to learn how to win those 60/40 hands more then 20%. I couldn't imagine playing Plo 30+ hrs a week tho such a sick game.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:56 AM   #111
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Yea I agree I don't think even the top crushers of nl have much of a clue at plo if the mixed game gets going. There are a few big Plo games down here though and some known wizards in them.

And yea it's fun / frustrating. It's like wanting to play with a bunch of puppies and then 20 seconds later wanting to drown said puppies with your bare hands.

If I were a billionaire Id only play plo, what's not to love about getting 4 cards?
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Old 03-24-2015, 01:59 PM   #112
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

NL/PLO mix seems like a great game but here it only goes at 5/t+ and I can't handle the swongs. Feel like I'd do okay just nut peddling and playing SPR whack-a-mole but that standard deviation is frightening
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:55 PM   #113
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Yea I agree I don't think even the top crushers of nl have much of a clue at plo if the mixed game gets going. There are a few big Plo games down here though and some known wizards in them.

And yea it's fun / frustrating. It's like wanting to play with a bunch of puppies and then 20 seconds later wanting to drown said puppies with your bare hands.

If I were a billionaire Id only play plo, what's not to love about getting 4 cards?
Yeah theres ones guy here that all the big Plo games are built around. When I first played him he pretty much just said pot every time it was on him. Unfortunately he's getting better and the games are too big for me to play in regularly (5k min sometimes 10).

Anyways I'm bored if anyone's at Borgata wanna 2/5 deep or 5/10 hu?
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:31 PM   #114
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Heh I was exaggerating for comedic purposes but I really do miss some sick free rolls in that game (and what is more tilting is how people fist pump get in like a zillion bb's re-re-re-re potting with bare nut hands) and from the basic gist of what I've learned free rolling folks should be one of your main objectives and that begins with preflop hand selection.

For education I recommened "Pot limit Omaha Poker" by Jeff Hwang (which is a cool / easy read if you like poker) and if you have a CR subscription Brystmar has some great stuff for beginning at the micros which is as close to live play as you can get (maybe not at the super high stakes where you have a few crushers?)

I definitely barely know what I'm doing in game but when I read literature / watch videos I keep up well so I think it's just a matter of playing a zillion hands (which I dont) and getting the feel. Right now I only play when forced to and even then only stay for a bit. Expectation in mixed game is probably even, which was my original goal, LOL. I play somewhat tight, make love to position, and only 3bet premiums when short or super deep...otherwise trying to flop nuts. It's already hard to win w/o sd a ton in a FR game, give everyone 4 cards and you'd better be snug.

The sick thing about PLO is I get it in with a monster, villain shows some medium strength hand that I have dominated one way, I lose, I rage plug in the hands into propokertools, and see that we were 58/42. That's what keeps me from playing the main game here.
Haha. I was just providing you with a different perspective that might make you feel better in those pots where you win a little but could have won a lot. Obv variance can be looked at from all different points. You ran cold once the money went in, but hot overall in the hand (probably like 10x expectation if you were playing 5-10 and chopped the dead $60 or whatever)...

And what you are describing sounds like fool's gold. People play terrible- but the edge available is small. Everyone who plays live plo who doesn't run hot shares that same sentiment ime...

When people play terrible in nl, the edge available is enormous. You can win a lot just running even (or worse). And even vs pros/grinders who get all the basics, if stacks are deep (a ton of them sit deep in lineups where it is super -ev for them to do so), the edge available is much bigger than in your average plo imo. Same thing if the game is short-handed (short-handed + deep nl is obv the greatest edge provider).

So basically F Plo/just play it if you have to. Better to have silver than fool's gold. Imo.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:02 AM   #115
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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the edge available is much bigger than in your average plo imo. Same thing if the game is short-handed (short-handed + deep nl is obv the greatest edge provider).
Do you have math to back this up? Serious question; if there's a way to analyze the edge available in a given game I'd like to know about it.

p.s. I was totally serious about Barry and Doyle. I mean totally. Cross my heart.
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:58 AM   #116
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Sorry DGAF didn't realize you were trying to teach me to be more positive which I def need to be more of lol.

Lobster, my PLO/NL confidant says that a good rule of thumb is to double your live wr. So a 2/5 NL player at $50/hr can assume $100/hr at 2/5 PLO. Id assume from what I've seen altogether it would be slightly less than that (and of course depending on avg. stack depth plus other factors)

The issue is variance. So while I could pretty much guarantee $80-120K if I played a straight 2,000 hours of 2/5 NL, the 2,000 hours of PLO would be somewhere in between $0-$200K.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:32 AM   #117
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Jeff Hwang's book on preflop selection is good...for when you're 500bbs+ deep.

Live low stakes full ring plo makes me want to slit my wrists. The combination of 20-25 hands/hr plus the fact that you're forced to play tight pre because everyone else is so loose is pretty unbearable. Otoh higher stakes/short handed plo is much more fun/profitable.
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:22 AM   #118
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Not upset I started House of Cards...

Anyone done Scandal? Thoughts?
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:40 AM   #119
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Bloodline on Netflix is tight
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:39 PM   #120
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Bloodline on Netflix is tight
sweet, yeah, any Netflix recs much appreciated.

on my birdman crush, I watched amores perros the other night- same director. def worth watching (not an all time movie tho imo).
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:40 PM   #121
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

I am here for the PLO myth busting
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:11 PM   #122
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Just started bloodline based on the rec. So far it is really good
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:57 AM   #123
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

anyone here from the St. Louis area? If so, how frequently does the 5/10 run in the casinos there? Thanks


And Better Call Saul is the nuts right now for me
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Old 04-03-2015, 03:32 PM   #124
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

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Bloodline on Netflix is tight
who am I supposed to root for? 3 episodes in and I like zero people (except maybe parolee's sister a little)...

Restrepo and then Korengal as back to back documentaries (in that order) is must see Netflix imo.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:22 AM   #125
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Re: MHFR Low-Content Thread

Yeah she looks good af. Danny plays that role like a champ. Behind newman as Eddie Felson, Danny is my next fave character of all time lol. I'd merk him with the quickness if he was related to me tho. You gonna play some BBall with Rakes and I soon? Got all of HG talking **** bout bball played a little at the Y then outside HG. I told them you can play, they told me kick rocks and said tell that man to bring it! Restrepo was a 10. The 2nd one was a 5.

MCheates...did you finish it?
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