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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 06-26-2012, 12:59 PM   #1
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Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

Been playing at table for several hours, pretty much young weakish ( I play mostly online poker, so the **** people do in Live poker often make very little sense to me) players, two decent regs, and one huge fish. I'm in the 1 seat in the BB, huge fish is 2 seat UTG, young good player is seat 9 SB.

Everyone is playing at least 150BB deep, vilain has 400BB, I have 390.
Here is the hand...
UTG limps, two guys in MP limp too, and then SB raises it up to 90.
I have aces in BB, I make it 250. Fish sighs a little bit, but then folds. Original raises calls after about thinking for 5 seconds ( so very fast).

Reads on vilain at this point: young, thinking player who does not fold to a single 3bet, nor does he give cbets any credit. Started of playing tight, but has now been playing about 30-35% hands in last two hours to get to play pots vs the fish. His bet sizing(9BB) was at first( he usually made it smaller), but since we haven't had many limped pots like this, its hard to comment on that objectively.

Flop comes Kc3c2d.I hold AdAc. I cbet 300, he raises to 890 after about 10 seconds.

What is optimal line here? Other than KK I don't see many value hands that he would raise here. I guess flopped 22/33 is possible, but didn't feel like that made much sense given how his betsizing was relatively bigger than other hands.

*Just call and shove over his cbet on blank turn? If he checks on blank turn just bet smallish? Bet smallish on turn when flush hits? Just all his cbet on blank turn/ call down river?

* since I have a hard time giving him credit for a nutshand( other than him fastplaying KK, and reversed vbetting AK) ,and he has repeatedly proven to be a non-believer, can I minraise here to induce and create illusion of fold equity (minraise would be to just under 1500 including my 300 bet)? Or is stacking off this deep with aces on this board just spewy?

Fold? (lol)
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

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Originally Posted by complexion View Post
Reads on vilain at this point: young, thinking player who does not fold to a single 3bet, nor does he give cbets any credit.
Raise bigger pre. Call flop.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #3
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

I don't think clicking back will induce much with your image.
Call flop imo

3bet more pre like 360
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:27 PM   #4
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

French Donkey, I don't think that I have mentioned anything about my image anywhere?

I agree that I should have 3bet tons bigger.... remember focussing on potentially keeping fish in pot instead of on the fact that we're all a gazillion BB deep
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:17 PM   #5
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

Flat the 90.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:57 PM   #6
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

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French Donkey, I don't think that I have mentioned anything about my image anywhere?

I agree that I should have 3bet tons bigger.... remember focussing on potentially keeping fish in pot instead of on the fact that we're all a gazillion BB deep

Sorry, took the "pretty much young weakish (....) players" for a "pretty much young and weakish" as a talk about your image

The sentence between the ( ) made me miss the last word of "players" so i thought you were talking about the perception you have on how you think people were seeing you.

So, if you don't have any information to give about your perceived image, i would say call otf, that's the standard line IMO
If you're considered to be a degen click back would be better IMO
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:14 PM   #7
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

You made it sound like you were oop in the OP. You're IP and he checkraised right?

If you didn't have the read that he doesn't fold to 3 bets, I would probably call and let the fish in. Since you do though, 3 bet bigger like others have said.

I would c bet smaller too but that's me. Call flop.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:46 PM   #8
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

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Originally Posted by mike dexter View Post
Flat the 90.
This pretty much can't ever be a mistake this deep vs good players.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:50 PM   #9
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

why would you non 3bet against some spazztard but play large pot oop /w a pair?

as played I'm calling it down (obv)
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:13 AM   #10
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

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Originally Posted by LucidDream View Post
This pretty much can't ever be a mistake this deep vs good players.
I would usually agree, but it seems really bad in the spot considering relative position, no?
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:52 AM   #11
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

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Originally Posted by asdfasdf32 View Post
I would usually agree, but it seems really bad in the spot considering relative position, no?
^ I agree with that. Since the OP mentions that villain never folds to 3-bets, I think it would be a mistake to not 3-bet bigger here.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:53 AM   #12
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

I strongly disagree with flatting the 90.

Deep stacks should make us more likely to 3bet with position. If we flat here it will almost certainly be 5 ways to the flop and we'll have the worst relative position and second worst absolute position. Villain usually has a pretty good hand to be raising OOP so I don't expect him to fold often. Lastly, with the read that he doesn't fold to 3bets, in the spot 3bet>>>>>>>>call.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #13
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

I can see flatting pre as fine to keep the fish in, but otherwise I think 3 betting is much better, but more like 350-400. Based on your description he is unlikely to 4-bet with anything less than kk and will still call your bet. As played, I am just calling him down on any board runout except a K. You basicly have the top of your range and position, stacking off or folding here both seem pretty bad, and considering you have A club I wouldn't fear the flush much. That being said, I think villian almost never has AK here so I am definitely curious to what other people think and the results.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #14
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OPs line is so strong that i feel like villains post flop range is leaning towards pretty much a set if K's, 2's or 3's. I think villain would just check call with AK. The only other hand that would make some sense is a FD that is trying to fold out QQ. I don't know it just feels like villain wants to get all the money in. I would peel flop and hope he shuts down on the turn. Curious what he had.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #15
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Re: Live 5/10 game aces 390 BB deep

I'm for 3 betting a bit bigger say 350 or 375 pre. As played on the flop I'm calling the V's raise. Hopefully he shuts down on the turn. But if not (and you don't improve) you've got to decide whether you are putting your whole stack in with one pair. A tough situation but a decision you should make before responding to turn action.

Any live reads? Does he look comfortable, nervous, etc.?
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