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Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river

01-30-2015 , 07:24 AM
longtime lurker here and trying to take my game a lot more seriously so looking for input on how to improve, so looking to get some of my larger hands reviewed just too get input and look for areas to improve, all help appreciated. anyway onto the hand.

Hero UTG +1early 30's white guy reg at the casino generally TAG but can sometimes be a little nitty passive. just moved to the game maybe a little over an orbit before after previous game broke, knows a couple of the other regs on the table. stack covers

Vil SBearly 20's asian kid never seen him here before and hasn't done anything notable in the round or so I've been at the table, stack $1900 ish

The Hand
hero opens 35 UTG+1 w/ 8 8 CO calls, Vil Sb calls, BB calls

Flop ($140)
567
checks to hero who cbets $75 co folds, sb calls, BB folds.

Turn ($290) 9
sb donks 120, hero thinks for a bit and raises to 325, sb tanks for a bit and pops it 400 on top, hero tanks a bit and calls.

River(1790) 4
Vil takes maybe 5 secs and ships ~1200, hero calls

My thoughts.
On the turn when he lead into me for under half pot i really though he was trying to set his price with a flush draw because if he had any value hands on the flop like 2pair or a set i don't really see him not raising on that super wet board, also its a great bluff card for him as my utg +1 range shouldn't have too many 8's in it whereas his should have a ton. SO i raise to charge his draws and was fairly surprised when he three balls me and I'm not too thrilled i don't have blockers to either of the 8's with the redraw. i did consider jamming briefly but it i thought it would pretty much shut out anything i wasn't at best chopping with and maybe getting freerolled, except maybe sets but what set does he have thats flatting that flop except maybe nines and it gives him a chance to bet river with worse. Anyway your thoughts on all streets appreciated
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-30-2015 , 08:37 AM
Why would villain fold a combo FD after putting almost half his stack in on the turn, and if he did why would that be a bad thing?
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-30-2015 , 01:04 PM
Easy flat turn / call all rivers / possibly raise rivers.

Ott you're in a great spot with a pretty disguised hand and if I'm asian I'm leading that turn and barreling river a ton with everything so just let him do that. Sometimes he has diamonds and is repping the straight in a good spot but most of the time he really does just have an 8 or is turning whatever he has into a bluff and that's fine when we have an 8 as well.

On a river club if he leads depending on timing/sizing/etc I might raise bc we have more clubs than him. If he checks a club river I'm betting...big...probably more than the pot because I like doing that.

Last edited by Avaritia; 01-30-2015 at 01:10 PM.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-30-2015 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Easy flat turn / call all rivers / possibly raise rivers.
On a river club if he leads depending on timing/sizing/etc I might raise bc we have more clubs than him. If he checks a club river I'm betting...big...probably more than the pot because I like doing that.
The guys only got 1200 left with the pot being 1790, also isn't his rando spazz turn range, that doesnt have an 8 in it, would i imagine be almost exclusively one of the two flush draws, most likely either a bare club draw or maybe 7x or 6x of diamonds that picked up bdf outs and decided to go nuts
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-30-2015 , 06:13 PM
I meant flat the original $120 obv and our flat turn / raise club river range should be exclusively 8x and clubs and if he's good he's folding his entire range besides nut clubs to a river raise.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-30-2015 , 10:28 PM
not a big fan of raising turn. we are obviously at the absolute top of our range here since we raised utg (which makes us want to raise), but since our opponents range is wide and uncapped, I think that we shouldn't have a raising range on the turn. think turn raise is beyond horrible for a lot more reasons but w/e. agree with avaritia for the most part
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-31-2015 , 03:12 AM
Flat 120, after getting 3 bet tho I'd just mush. Only 2 8s left in the deck and as stacks are set I think you get called quite often and you are almost never behind.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-31-2015 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager 102
not a big fan of raising turn. we are obviously at the absolute top of our range here since we raised utg (which makes us want to raise), but since our opponents range is wide and uncapped, I think that we shouldn't have a raising range on the turn. think turn raise is beyond horrible for a lot more reasons but w/e. agree with avaritia for the most part
Not having a raising range here is deplorable
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-31-2015 , 04:30 PM
You have no concept of game theory, also don't ****post. At least try to explain yourself
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
01-31-2015 , 06:47 PM
GTO is a bunch a' confusing mumbo jumbo that I'll leave to the wizards but I can speak for my own range that would want to continue OTT and that's A2-5,AT+, 78s, 89s, and 88. I'd only want to raise one combo in that range and even then it's not like it's a fist pump vs. some young asian we've played one orbit with and are 200bbs effective with.

Lol balance
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-01-2015 , 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
GTO is a bunch a' confusing mumbo jumbo that I'll leave to the wizards but I can speak for my own range that would want to continue OTT and that's A2-5,AT+, 78s, 89s, and 88. I'd only want to raise one combo in that range and even then it's not like it's a fist pump vs. some young asian we've played one orbit with and are 200bbs effective with.

Lol balance
Yup. Flat turn. River call is bad imo.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-01-2015 , 03:31 PM
You obv should not have a raising range ott in a world of balance, with so few 8s in your range you obv need to protect the weaker part of it.

That being said, raising can obv be more profitable, but it sure as hell ain't gto.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-01-2015 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirwanda
You obv should not have a raising range ott in a world of balance, with so few 8s in your range you obv need to protect the weaker part of it.

That being said, raising can obv be more profitable, but it sure as hell ain't gto.
do what's more profitable. playing 5/10 games at lapc is a lot different than playing the same regs day in day out online.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-03-2015 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
GTO is a bunch a' confusing mumbo jumbo that I'll leave to the wizards but I can speak for my own range that would want to continue OTT and that's A2-5,AT+, 78s, 89s, and 88. I'd only want to raise one combo in that range and even then it's not like it's a fist pump vs. some young asian we've played one orbit with and are 200bbs effective with.

Lol balance
Every poster seems to be forgetting Villians possible range of 8 diamonds, X diamonds. And given the reraise on the turn, this seems very possible. Back door flush draw and straight on the turn. Villian puts hero on 8 because of the turn raise. Easy shove looking to get value from the straight for the perceived missed flush draw.

I think my complaint in this hand was we shouldn't have raised the turn. Too many hands have better equity on the turn.
As played. Fold to the the river shove. I think your behind too often to make this call profitable.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-03-2015 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok
Every poster seems to be forgetting Villians possible range of 8 diamonds, X diamonds. And given the reraise on the turn, this seems very possible. Back door flush draw and straight on the turn. Villian puts hero on 8 because of the turn raise. Easy shove looking to get value from the straight for the perceived missed flush draw.
Again im not talking about calling river after we went nuts on the turn, im saying its an easy flat of the original $120 and when i say not folding any river yea i mean diamonds suck but most of the time we are chopping and sometimes we are even winning. Again this is all in regards to the original proposed line of flatting $120 ott.
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02-03-2015 , 03:08 PM
As played I would fold river. I think most players would be wary of that river card because we could easily have backed into the flush ourselves and would prob be inclined to check decide.

Turn is kind of annoying because he bet so small, but I think flatting the $120 is fine. We have position, there are two flush draws we can rep vs a chop hand, we will have a lot worse than 8 most of the time even with decent equity that we want to continue with, SB is FOS often, etc, etc.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-04-2015 , 02:29 PM
I would fold river. I would say villain has caught a combo back door draw. Maybe 2 pair plus fd? I would imagine he would ship any straight plus fd OTT. With those stack sizes I like a flat OTT as well.
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02-08-2015 , 02:24 AM
Results fwiw, I called and vil shows kq
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02-09-2015 , 06:33 PM
I'm just going to co-sign all the ppl saying flat the turn.
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote
02-09-2015 , 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
I meant flat the original $120 obv and our flat turn / raise club river range should be exclusively 8x and clubs and if he's good he's folding his entire range besides nut clubs to a river raise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
GTO is a bunch a' confusing mumbo jumbo that I'll leave to the wizards but I can speak for my own range that would want to continue OTT and that's A2-5,AT+, 78s, 89s, and 88. I'd only want to raise one combo in that range and even then it's not like it's a fist pump vs. some young asian we've played one orbit with and are 200bbs effective with.

Lol balance
You must be a wizard savant then, since you posted what seems like some pretty good GT without realizing it...
Lapc 5/10 turned straight get jammed on on river Quote

      
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