V1: pretty fishy player, talking about how big he plays and how sick all his plays are. Always folds the best hand and plays perfectly according to him. 3b bluffed him earlier and showed 5c. Seems like real ego type think he will spazz out eventually sitting on 3.5k or so

V2: super lag, him and I have a small amount of history. We had played short handed about a month ago for four hours. Caught some of his bluffs he caught a few of mind and he got coolered twice. He is probably playing 60-70% of hands IP and willing to float/bluff post a lot. What mistakes he may make fundamentally he makes up for with live feel/hand reading ability. He is super positionally aware and will peel almost any 3b for a reasonable price. Think he is tilting a little bit, but also think he is selling the tilt to get paid off later when he has the goods. He probably views hero as a semi-capable luckbox (our small sample I have ran amazing) and has seen hero run some bluffs/bet thin. Suspects that hero lacks heart to pull the trigger on a big bluff/third barrel, but that hero will call light. Covers everyone

Hero: Young looking 23 year old, generally playing laggy. Table usually thinks I am semi out of line. Super social and talkative willing to gamble it up with the table. Might be annoying both Vs because I haven't shut up much in the last hour. Haven't 3b a ton but did get bluffs through twice pre and then 3b/folded AK to a cold 4b but didn't show so far on the night. $5600

Not sure about preflop and river, think flop and turn are standard/obvious.

5 handed
UTG folds V1 opens 75 V2 calls SB folds Hero 3b red JJ in BB to 375 V1 folds V2 calls

Flop:
255ss
Hero bets 300 V2 calls pretty quickly

Turn:
9d
Hero bets 800 V2 calls after some thought

River:
Qs
Hero checks V2 bets 2125 hero??


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Fold. When he calls flop your contuining range is face up. This is spades often. I would call this pre flop also sometimes for balance. 3b Sizing is uber large. Prefer 300 even or 285. AP flop net should be 475ish. We want worse to call, not everything...

Soulread and prob call off a good amount of the time, when we bet $300 into $800 OTF this type of villain is gonna hate folding his entire range and very well may try to rep flush once it gets there

What is our checking range on this river/what does vill perceive it to be?

In theory I'm checking here 100% (seems pretty damn correct) think he perceives my range as what my hand is, lots of big pairs. He certainly is capable of turning hands into bluffs here with like 66-88/A5 etc. plus he is obv bluffing 34 here


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Turn is a decent spot to check and plan on never folding. With his super loose range, he'll have you beat practically as often than he has TT 88 77 66 once he calls your bet, so there's actually not a lot of value in betting this.

I fold river for sure. You have a lot of better hands to call with here, including JJ with spade. He's got loads of trips, flush, and boat combos and his only natural bluff is 43. Duece-x 44 33 folds turn, and 88 77 66 could fold turn as well. I don't think he's turning enough pairs into bluffs here to justify digging this far into our range for calling hands.

I miswrote the board it was 225ss not 552ss


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Presumably the Qs on the river narrows the amount of flushes he can have where he calls twice pre (we can eliminate QJ/JT/KQ from his range). But given the description he can almost have any two suited when he's on the button, right?

So we lose to 5s full, quad 22, 99 and let's give him 10 combos of flushes. 17 combos total.

Let's say he also turns 1/3 of his busted draws and pairs into bluffs (4 combos of 43, 1 combo each of A4/A3 suited, 10 combos of 33, 44, 66-88).

We are getting almost 2-1 on a call and the combos cancel each other out, so it looks like a call.

A lot will depend on how wide he's calling OTB (ATC?) and the frequency of how often he turns smaller pairs into bluffs.

522 vs 552 is a pretty large difference, but I still c/f river. Turn bet makes a little more sense on 522, but c/c is still likely best.

Deathcab, I think you're underestimating how many value combos he has. I see 99/55/22 (7), Nut flushes (9), Other flushes (13 or more), Trips (at least 2, maybe more).

^^^ thanks for clarifying, I did the combo work in my head before my 1st cup of coffee

Nh
Id prolly bet otr tho
Definitely like turn bet tho for value protection.
River gets a little tough but I think betting again for a medium size is ok. He will snap xb a bunch of hands that you beat.
You could also bet small like 500$ and balance it w some nutty hands. Its nice to induce some spew w some nut hands otr
Think the hands you list as potential bluffs are a bit of reach.3/4 s shouldn't be in there much and pairs just want to xb
Your x otr is fine tho. As played I'd mix calling and folding depending on some live factors

I don't unterstand why we 3bet here. We will be OOP with a face-up hand while being >200bb deep with V2 .. V2 can put us in so many ugly spots given the situation.

-> I just call pre ..

Were you on drugs during the hand? Your self description suggests that.

River is close imo .. But I like a fold.


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Preflop is okayish. This deep I think calling OOP vs these two players might be best. As played I think small flop bet might have increased his continuing range to a large extent. There are a few flush combos that he would raise on the flop A4ss, A3ss, possibly other A high flushes. I would go bigger on the flop, possibly 450 with my entire range. On the turn I would go a bit bigger as well.

We are getting 2.43:1 on a call and thus need 30% equity vs his range. Due to the very limited bluff combos I can think of that will double float and bet 2/3 pot on the river, I am folding.

3b is standard and best pre unless utg is very nitty not rly close
never understood why folks wanna flat good hands pre deep
(likely because they dont build/protect their ranges well enough post flop) youll also get yourself in bad spots when u cap your range pf by flatting

Yeah it's a very thick 3-bet pre vs. these tards.

I think if V1 isn't involved we can flat more often but with the potential spazz from ego bro-tard I felt comfortable with the 3b. Sized big to try to keep V2 out, clearly worked well lol.

In regards to the small flop bet our range is so value heavy and his is so much weaker I don't see why we would want to size 1/2 pot or greater with our value or bluffs. If he floats 100% or tries to play hero poker that is a probably going to be a big mistake vs my range. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong though.


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Are you v1 or v2, dgaf?

Read Descip of player 1. No way DGAF has that table talk, if he hews to ANY of his posts on appropriate table etiquette (be a fun guy to play. Make everyone have fun at good vibe at table so fish/whales can have fun and good vibe at table). V1 sounds like a whiney bitch, regardless of how he plays.

V2... Now that sounds like the Beast we all know and love.

less on turn, pf and flop is good/standard. river seems a little close, with spade I like a bet but without I think its a check/decide, vs this size I find a fold. on this runout I don't think we have to protect our checking range otr too much, could be wrong about that tho

Yes I was tard 2. Tard 1 is a legit fish I know who fooled the players at that casino into thinking he was a dirty LA grinder based on his looks/behavior, and therefore he was getting the dirty grinder treatment afaict...

It's very logical (and fair imo) to alienate dirty grinders (they suck the oxygen out of the game, **** them obv) so my hat's off to the regs there for their efforts/intentions. It's just so, so important to not judge a book by its cover/to really examine one's poker play objectively/to never alienate someone who may actually be a fish willing to play 10-25 in 2016!

Having said that, Tard 1 is a weird and (unintentionally, but w/e) hilarious dude with very thick skin, and he might actually be the kind to enjoy getting the dirty grinder treatment. So idk, maybe nbd.

--

I have zero interest in talking about the hand or how Op could play better vs me in general (ldo), I just couldn't help but quote the tard comment (I honestly thought it would just be an inside joke with the people who know me and know I was T2, but apparently philpemester is a soul reader ).

And ftr, I'm not saying I'm not a tard- I am, I actually just drooled on my laptop a little fml, just saying it's fascinating to me how different things are in the forums compared to real life, and how very often Tards can't get anyone in the entire casino to take their money. It's kind like being the hottest girl at the fraternity party, horny as hell, and no one will **** you.

Forgive me for thinking that 95+ percent of all players with V2's description are tards out of hand. And anyway, the comment still stands even if V2 is an excellent loose player. Winning super LAGs are primarily winning because people are unwilling or unable to punish their weak ranges.

It's fine. Tight players will always say loose players are terrible (even if they don't really believe that or why would they ever quit?), and loose players will tend to think most tight players are insanely dependent on cold-decking people. I honestly wasn't bothered/I am a "tard" by almost all poker players' standards.

Really hard to punish a weak/wide pf range oop and deep tho. Punishing a strong/narrow pf range ip and deep otoh...

I think I like this one.

hand is very standard 3b pre (even OOP, even deep, even capped) and you can literally tell these tard villains you have JJ and you will still come out ahead in the long run as long as you don't bloat every dry board and/or don't fold every wet board

Yeah, I was trolling about dgaf possibly being v1.