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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 07-27-2011, 07:17 PM   #176
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Originally Posted by hurt View Post
i am impressed at how concisely and eloquently renton is able to summarize why the online players are frustrated about this situation, and disappointed at the weak pseudo-arguments that he has to suffer through. he's made some excellent arguments as to why online/live should be segregated and i believe that the replies to these arguments quite obviously fall way, way short.
LOL

What's the frustration about really? Having to click on a few threads because their titles don't clarify whether they are live or online? Then having to hit the back arrow 2 seconds later after you realize you've opened a live thread? Is that really so frustrating?

There are currently 4 online strat threads on the first 2 pages of mhfr (fwiw, they all make it clear in their titles that they are online). The reply counts in them are 17, 7, 3 and 1... Is this lack of activity/life really due to anything other than midstakes online fr poker (because of HUDs/pokerstove, a small player pool, tough competition, etc) not being conducive to public strat posting? Or, are all the live threads really to blame?

Please answer these direct questions with direct answers...
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:50 PM   #177
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Balance is obviously important, even vs unknown regs, even in live games.
Please explain in detail, as it applies to the scenario that sparked all of this- a nitpro you have no history with opens in lp 100 bbs deep in live 5-10 and it folds to you in the BB. Why exactly is balancing a priority/even a consideration here?


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I don't really agree with your edge argument, except to say that the good regs online are certainly more tight-lipped when it comes to posting strategy.
You don't think there is more edge available live? I know someone who's fundamentals apparently suck- and he rarely plays inspired/super focused, yet he's won about 30 bb/100 over approximately his last 8k hours/240k hands at live 5-10. What's available to win/100 at online fr nl1000?

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Live is a unique game, and while DGAF's post romanticizes the hell out of it
I hope you are just saying I romanticize its uniqueness, and not the game itself. I always try to point out that it's dreadfully slow, often mind-numbing, sometimes really rough work conditions, etc--> I don't love it.

Last edited by DGAF; 07-27-2011 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:15 PM   #178
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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LOL

What's the frustration about really? Having to click on a few threads because their titles don't clarify whether they are live or online? Then having to hit the back arrow 2 seconds later after you realize you've opened a live thread? Is that really so frustrating?
essentially. i find that online threads can be interesting and i resent having to wade through what is the equivalent of trivial microstakes threads for good content. the SSNL mods which are quite frankly more appreciated than this forum's mod (exemplified by this thread, IMO... not withstanding all the deleted posts) have taken steps so that the posters there do not have to pick and choose which threads are relevant to them by banning low stakes live threads.

Quote:
There are currently 4 online strat threads on the first 2 pages of mhfr (fwiw, they all make it clear in their titles that they are online). The reply counts in them are 17, 7, 3 and 1... Is this lack of activity/life really due to anything other than midstakes online fr poker (because of HUDs/pokerstove, a small player pool, tough competition, etc) not being conducive to public strat posting? Or, are all the live threads really to blame?

Please answer these direct questions with direct answers...
you are totally missing the point. it's not at all pertinent why MHSFR online threads are uncommon, and who/what is to blame for the absurd ratio of live to online threads in this forum.

the issue is that these game formats do not at all belong in the same forum for aforementioned reasons, and as such there is a serious need to re-compartmentalize the forum. a 1/2-5/10 FRNL forum and then separate live forum seems like an excellent idea, i don't see why anyone would think otherwise minus live players trying to leech higher level strat content off of online players.

i haven't sifted through this entire thread, but it can be empirically observed that virtually everyone that plays online wants some type of change to happen here, and the opposing party is entirely made up of live players.
now, here is a question for you - why? are live players simply reasonable and upstanding gentlemen while all online players are narcissistic egomaniacs?
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:48 PM   #179
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Please explain in detail, as it applies to the scenario that sparked all of this- a nitpro you have no history with opens in lp 100 bbs deep in live 5-10 and it folds to you in the BB. Why exactly is balancing a priority/even a consideration here?
IMO, one should always start from a position of balance when determining a gameplan for a common situation (like playing a dry flop oop), and then deviate from that plan based on reads. I'm ok with bluffing an unbalanced amount, but I just don't think we know enough about the opponent in that hand to just decide to c/r bluff the flop 60% of the time. I also think balance is important because it's a decent idea to assume that your opponent might be balancing as well. Perhaps he has decided he is not folding the top 40% of his c-betting range.

So I guess I'm saying that considering balance should always be important, not that one should always adopt a balanced strategy.




Quote:
You don't think there is more edge available live? I know someone who's fundamentals apparently suck- and he rarely plays inspired/super focused, yet he's won about 30 bb/100 over approximately his last 8k hours/240k hands at live 5-10. What's available to win/100 at online fr nl1000?
At your somewhat flippant comment about fundamentals: by and large means for the most part, or generally. Obviously a seasoned pro playing live for 8k hours is going to be an exception.

I was mainly referring to the fact that the live edge is often overestimated. While I think it is quite a bit larger than online in the absolute sense, the fact that online rake is far less levels it out a bit. Also, the day to day consistency of a 3ptbb online winner's results makes it hard to call his edge "small," your 30bb/100 guy will have downswings that last weeks/months despite his massive edge.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:27 PM   #180
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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IMO, one should always start from a position of balance when determining a gameplan for a common situation (like playing a dry flop oop), and then deviate from that plan based on reads. I'm ok with bluffing an unbalanced amount, but I just don't think we know enough about the opponent in that hand to just decide to c/r bluff the flop 60% of the time. I also think balance is important because it's a decent idea to assume that your opponent might be balancing as well. Perhaps he has decided he is not folding the top 40% of his c-betting range.

So I guess I'm saying that considering balance should always be important, not that one should always adopt a balanced strategy.






At your somewhat flippant comment about fundamentals: by and large means for the most part, or generally. Obviously a seasoned pro playing live for 8k hours is going to be an exception.

I was mainly referring to the fact that the live edge is often overestimated. While I think it is quite a bit larger than online in the absolute sense, the fact that online rake is far less levels it out a bit. Also, the day to day consistency of a 3ptbb online winner's results makes it hard to call his edge "small," your 30bb/100 guy will have downswings that last weeks/months despite his massive edge.
Re: balancing. I think your points are solid and logical, but not really applicable to live play because the pace is so slow (repeat spots don't come up quick enough), the player pool is so large (you might not ever play another hand against your opponent), and there are no stats available.

IMO, you just want to play optimally/each hand in a vaccuum in live poker and then balance certain spots as it becomes necessary (you've logged a bunch of hours against a thinking reg and his sample size for you in a specific spot is large enough for him to start narrowing down your range considerably).

Re: edge. While your points about swings and rake are accurate, I'm just talking about overall edge available. People in general play much better/less leaky/more informed/tighter at online fr nl1000 than they do at live 5-10--> edge available at live 5-10 is much greater. Because of this (and all the other factors I previously mentioned), I think winning live players are much more apt to post hands/discuss strategy on a public forum than winning online players- which obv makes a lot of sense with regards to profitability/livelihood.

***I apologize for my "somewhat flippant" (I agree with you that it was) fundamentals comment. I usually make a point of it to not cloud what I'm trying to say with childish, emotional language/remarks. It seems like that is your default approach as well- which makes this (or any other discussion) so much better/productive for everyone IMO.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:55 PM   #181
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

hurt-

If having to "wade through" all the live threads to find online threads is really a huge point of frustration for you, your threshold for frustration is incredibly low/probably a bit unhealthy IMO. I'd estimate it should take a person of your intelligence and computer savvy (you work on the computer right?) less than 1 minute per page to figure out which threads are online and which ones are live. And of course if you check this subforum regularly (which I'm pretty sure you do), you only need to check the first page.

Q- why do you post in live threads when you have such disdain for live poker?

---

I too have long thought it would be nice if live and online were segregated- I even suggested to my friend who is starting a live training site that he should make it a 2p2 for live players (with a few differences)... However, jloc has made it clear that a segregation is not in the works. So be it. As pointed out above, it's not too hard or time consuming IMO to decipher which threads are live and which ones are online, and there is at least some benefit to having them together...

A fairly big LOL to your notion of live players not complaining/pushing for a segregation because they want to "leech" off the online players. How would a segregation at all inhibit live players from lurking online threads (please answer this)? Also, what makes you think live players give the online threads much attention? I for one, only occasionally read them and then usually quickly realize I'm not familiar enough with pf ranges/HUD stats to contribute or get much out of the discussion... The only poster I've ever "leeched off" or lurked is limon- a predominantly live player. Other than that, it's pretty much give and take with the other posters IMO. Also, I'm one of many (I think) who generally learns more from posting than from reading.

In closing, a fairly silly answer to your fairly silly question about live players not being egotistical, etc--> Perhaps variance and the slow pace of live poker has beaten the ego out of most players. Or perhaps because we are out in the real (often very real) world, we have learned to become social and flexible, and we know that acting primadonna-ish or complaining a lot isn't well received/doesn't get you anywhere.


***Take a look at "High Stakes Limit". That's what mhfr would look like without live threads- an absolute ghost town.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:01 PM   #182
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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essentially. i find that online threads can be interesting and i resent having to wade through what is the equivalent of trivial microstakes threads for good content. the SSNL mods which are quite frankly more appreciated than this forum's mod (exemplified by this thread, IMO... not withstanding all the deleted posts) have taken steps so that the posters there do not have to pick and choose which threads are relevant to them by banning low stakes live threads.
If I removed all the live threads, there would be an empty forum. This is due to online players refusing to post, participate, and share information on and about their games. Repeatedly I have asked for MORE online hands to be posted and have always said I understand and respect why they are not. Deciding to break up a perfectly good forum like SSFR just to add those exact threads in this forum seems ridiculous. 200NL hands fit perfectly well within SSFRs parameters so why disrupt that? And Again, this forum was initially created to REMOVE those exact threads on the basis of them being small stakes.

As for the shot at me not being respected, everybody has the right to their opinion on whether or not they like me as a player, poster, or moderator. I can't and will not ever be able to appease everyone but please do know that I have received countless PMs from both online and live players in this forum with positive feedback and plenty of 'thank yous' for my efforts in trying to create a place where strategy can thrive. I would go so far to say the haters are outnumbered by a greater than 3-1 margin when it comes to this forums approval rating as well as mine.

If a post is deleted it is because it was intended to troll or derail. Removing those posts has been the single most important asset in turning MHFR into a functioning forum. If you disagree with me, so be it, but know that I am right. To compare, please go back to any thread before November of '09 and see the difference in content and respect.

The mods in SSFR didn't ban low stakes live hands. A forum was created for them because there was a huge demand for it and the higher ups finally caved in (having *TT* who was a big opponent of a live forum leave helped). So now, live low stakes hands are moved to the proper forum. They didn't just decide to ban them. That would be like saying the probability forum just banned stud hands. Noooo, they are just moved to the appropriate forum. In fact, some of the SSFR mods participate in LLNL as well because they play those games too so to think they just banned them from their forum because they weren't worthy is just torquing the truth to appease your views.

Quote:
you are totally missing the point. it's not at all pertinent why MHSFR online threads are uncommon, and who/what is to blame for the absurd ratio of live to online threads in this forum.

the issue is that these game formats do not at all belong in the same forum for aforementioned reasons, and as such there is a serious need to re-compartmentalize the forum. a 1/2-5/10 FRNL forum and then separate live forum seems like an excellent idea, i don't see why anyone would think otherwise minus live players trying to leech higher level strat content off of online players.
Online players barely offer any content anymore so I'm not sure what live players are exactly "leeching off". Maybe when you eventually play bigger staked games you will understand the nuances that arise and start to see the difference in how the game is played. Now, please don't confuse this with the games being more advanced then online as that is not what I am saying nor implying. But this is a high STAKES forum so regardless of your opinion on what discipline is more skillful has no merit in this discussion.

With that said, I do believe this forum offers more high quality discussion then any other strategy forum on 2p2 (or any other public forum for that matter). Not all threads will be winners nor will all posters put in the time and effort to meet the demands and expectations that you and/or others yearn for but as a collective whole I don't think it's close when comparing debate held here vs the other forums. If I am mistaken, I would appreciate some links to the threads you would like this forum to emulate in quality.

I also don't see why you don't just spend all your time in SSFR since they have removed all the live threads you hate AND have all/only 100-200NL hands which you claim offer superior information. What are you doing here anyways? You are fighting a battle that doesn't need to be fought since everything you want and need is already in SSFR.

Quote:
i haven't sifted through this entire thread, but it can be empirically observed that virtually everyone that plays online wants some type of change to happen here, and the opposing party is entirely made up of live players.
That just isn't the case. When this thread was started by me it was when I had just took over as moderator and of course their was going to be some rebellion when it comes to change. But as time has gone on and discussion has been allowed to thrive, more and more online players are participating and/or enjoying the forums vibe. Many of the online regs never really participated on strategy discussion before, especially since their wasn't much "discussion" taking place, so nothing much has changed in that sense.

I have stated from the very beginning and I will reiterate it one more time. My goal has and will always be to create an environment where strategy discussion can take place and thrive. That's it. I have no bias toward online players or threads and have been one of if not THE biggest proponent of injecting more online threads into this forum as well as integrating online players into the discussions that take place, both in live and online threads.

The content has increasingly gotten better and better over the past year and a half and I hope that trend continues. Again just look back at some threads from years back for reference. This whole time I have said "baby steps" when discussing this forums ability to survive and thrive. We have taken quite a few in my estimation and still have a ways to go but without a doubt the improvement in quality both in terms of discussion and contributors has escalated. This cannot be refuted. For every mundane thread that appears now (and their certainly are some) their were 10 of them before.

This forums theme is respect, plain and simple. It will always be as long as I am apart of its community. Like it or not that's how it is and you are welcome to go elsewhere if that conflicts with your views on how the forum should be run or your personal views of me as a moderator.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:04 PM   #183
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Balance is obviously important, even vs unknown regs, even in live games.
I don't agree. The perception of balance is what is important in live games.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:10 PM   #184
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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We will see you at the live tables jloc. Please plan on going busto soon.
has this happened yet? lol.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:11 PM   #185
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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i just swear to god when I saw you posted ITT i was gonna read that. LOL
i do think live pros/players in US don't realize quite well this hell of a friday will hit them as hard as the "juvenile-sunglassed-mof*** 3bet online ****in monkeys" guys they imagine.

sry smoked up
lol. reading this stuff now...
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:28 PM   #186
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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has this happened yet? lol.
(no)
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #187
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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(no)
amazingly, reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated as well. it seems as though i do very well exploiting my opponents in 3/4 bet pots and giving no thought to having a polarized balance. balance is for losers and rakeback pros imo. every play i make is meant to exploit, so i am always out of balance by definition. i think their should be a forum for this line of thought, the balancers clog up my threads.
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Old 07-30-2011, 12:51 PM   #188
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Maybe the best thing about live poker is that there is no way to track the results (unless you do it yourself). And thus everyone who plays live poker will almost always think they are big winner and crush and definitely won't need any "polarized balance", or whatever that means.

I just wish there was a way to get more hands. Like have a screen in front of every player and give you the option to add more tables from the same casino. So then you could be at commerce playing 10 tables while sitting down at one. That would be the day when I would be finally inspired to make it back to live pokers. But that also would probably kill live pokers fairly quickly.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:57 PM   #189
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Winning live players track their results and those who don't track aren't, plain and simple. And I stand by what I said and what limon so eloquently reiterated...giving the perception of balance is what is important, nothing more.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:08 PM   #190
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Maybe the best thing about live poker is that there is no way to track the results (unless you do it yourself). And thus everyone who plays live poker will almost always think they are big winner and crush and definitely won't need any "polarized balance", or whatever that means.

I just wish there was a way to get more hands. Like have a screen in front of every player and give you the option to add more tables from the same casino. So then you could be at commerce playing 10 tables while sitting down at one. That would be the day when I would be finally inspired to make it back to live pokers. But that also would probably kill live pokers fairly quickly.
Ya I've been paying my mortgage(s) for the past decade with my imagination. Ill also try telling the IRS that live players cant/dont keep records lol What planet do you live on?
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:25 PM   #191
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Ya I've been paying my mortgage(s) for the past decade with my imagination. Ill also try telling the IRS that live players cant/dont keep records lol What planet do you live on?

I win at 15 bb/100. But only on the sites that are not tracked by PTR. On the sites tracked by PTR, my fullring winrate is a now very modest 5 bb/100 and lately more of my winnings have been coming from rakeback.

you and jloc are good at pokers on the casinos not tracked by PTR either. I am sure you guys win at 50 bb/100. No doubt.
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:05 PM   #192
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I win at 15 bb/100. But only on the sites that are not tracked by PTR. On the sites tracked by PTR, my fullring winrate is a now very modest 5 bb/100 and lately more of my winnings have been coming from rakeback.

you and jloc are good at pokers on the casinos not tracked by PTR either. I am sure you guys win at 50 bb/100. No doubt.
?? I've been very clear about realistic winrates. It's in the 80/hr range for 5-10 and 120 for 10-20 and that's for a
World class player who wins live an online.
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:13 PM   #193
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Loco- I love you, but you are barking up the wrong tree here i think. I mean even im a long time big winner and i have zero discipline and run like ****. What do you think limon and jloc do? Also, "mortgage(s)" is pretty baller no matter where you play IMO.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:39 PM   #194
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Also, "mortgage(s)" is pretty baller no matter where you play IMO.
hard workin' wife and no kids ftw!
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:32 PM   #195
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Loco- I love you, but you are barking up the wrong tree here i think. I mean even im a long time big winner and i have zero discipline and run like ****. What do you think limon and jloc do? Also, "mortgage(s)" is pretty baller no matter where you play IMO.

I am not saying you guys lose. But the point is you guys can say whatever you want and nobody will ever know the difference. I mean I am pretty sure all three of you win. Yet, I have also seen all three of you post extremely suspect information (in other subject matters also).

On the other hand, I see Renton is up $40K+ this month according to an independant tracker and I have never seen him post something that I thought was totally out there (his advice always seems super solid). And I also see that he put about two years worth of hands compared to you guys.

And fatdanny boy who also hangs around in this forum put in 4 years of "live play" by playing 200K hands and is up $60K this month. These are all results easily verifiable.

Yet when Limon comes on here blabbing nonsense about "polarized balance" and rakeback pros, instead of anybody saying something, jlocdog comes in here saying "and what limon so eloquently reierated." I mean, what can I say, LOL LOL LOL and just for the heck of it, give me another LOL. But at least you should thank me for trying to wake you guys up from this fantasy world you live in. And I know you are waking up DGAF and I can see in your posts you are making leaps and bounds in your game. If online poker ever comes back to the USA, I welcome for you to make the effort and join in the spoils. If you leave those dinosaurs you idolize behind, your profit and knowledge would soar to another level.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:46 AM   #196
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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I am not saying you guys lose. But the point is you guys can say whatever you want and nobody will ever know the difference. I mean I am pretty sure all three of you win. Yet, I have also seen all three of you post extremely suspect information (in other subject matters also).

On the other hand, I see Renton is up $40K+ this month according to an independant tracker and I have never seen him post something that I thought was totally out there (his advice always seems super solid). And I also see that he put about two years worth of hands compared to you guys.

And fatdanny boy who also hangs around in this forum put in 4 years of "live play" by playing 200K hands and is up $60K this month. These are all results easily verifiable.

Yet when Limon comes on here blabbing nonsense about "polarized balance" and rakeback pros, instead of anybody saying something, jlocdog comes in here saying "and what limon so eloquently reierated." I mean, what can I say, LOL LOL LOL and just for the heck of it, give me another LOL. But at least you should thank me for trying to wake you guys up from this fantasy world you live in. And I know you are waking up DGAF and I can see in your posts you are making leaps and bounds in your game. If online poker ever comes back to the USA, I welcome for you to make the effort and join in the spoils. If you leave those dinosaurs you idolize behind, your profit and knowledge would soar to another level.
I don't understand the point of contention. Are you saying that all live players are lying about their experiences, strategies and win-rates? Or are you saying that these two posters in particular are lying. It doesn't seem logical to me that these two posters, each with thousands of posts, have systematically for years lied on the forums for some unspecified reason. That's alot of time and effort for no apparent benefit.

It seems more logical that they both get some gratification from sharing valuable information with others who need help. People sharing for the sheer gratification of helping has happened daily since this forum first began. You can look back at Raymer's and Durrr's posts and many more famous and not so famous posters and see for yourself. I've heard many interviews with high-stakes and nose-bleed players that thank 2+2 for getting them to where they are. Why should these two specific posters be the exception?

You seem to have trouble accepting their posts at face value. This is really the crux of the situation. The interesting question is why you feel this way. I noticed you said you've seen "suspect information" in their posts. A common listening mistake is when someone listens for specific words instead of listening for ideas. This mistake can really tie you in knots because you're alway correcting the irrelevent words, while missing out on the important ideas. All communication will always have words you don't agree with, but if you can learn to focus on the entire concept of the communication, you'll pick up alot more information. It's a terrible waste of time and mental energy to constantly pick out the words and try and convince the speaker, writer, other readers and the universe why the communication should be the way you want it to be.

Hopefully this eases your pain.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:30 PM   #197
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

It seems the typical poker player, both live and online, is not as smart or successful as he/she would like to be. By smart and successful I mean having nothing to do with amount of money made through poker or by amazing strat posts on 2p2, but more to do with what someone thinks they are capable of doing in life but haven't done so yet. For example, I would like to think I'm an above average writer, but for various reasons (namely talent), I haven't written much worth reading. This gnaws at me from time to time and it's easy and somewhat satisfying to look at a recreational player and berate him (in my mind at least) for being so stupid. In reality the fish is usually very successful at what he does, is very smart, and is more 'successful' in society than most of us.

Before this seems like too much of a tangent, I'm just stating that it seems online guys look at live pros like the live pros look at fish. The live pros are successful at what they do, they have adapted to their environment and have done whatever is necessary to win the most money. Now I'm not trying to make a perfect analogy since in reality I think most live pros will never attain the same success as the recreational players they play against, while online players could certainly step into a live setting and attain poker success. I just think the reasons for being condescending or close minded come from within and have little to do with the fundamental differences in the two games.
Whether or not there are more optimal ways to play poker is almost irrelevant since I can't imagine how a live player having an unbalanced range could possibly affect the poker life of an internet player. Every time you open a thread you have a choice to move on if it doesn't interest you or to find something in it that does and delve into that part. I've played deepstack for years and I know that in any deepstack (200bb+) live hand worth posting there are several interesting 'of the beaten path' topics to discuss. Whether or not they are discussed is up to the forum, but in no way are these threads detrimental.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:09 PM   #198
limon
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Originally Posted by loco View Post
I am not saying you guys lose. But the point is you guys can say whatever you want and nobody will ever know the difference. I mean I am pretty sure all three of you win. Yet, I have also seen all three of you post extremely suspect information (in other subject matters also).
i have no doubt i have posted suspect info. ive been posting here for over a decade. what were your thoughts on checking back flops w/ overcards in 1999? but what specifically dont you like NOW? is it the JJ hand still? iirc that was a live HS shorthanded situation, ill stand by my reads even if they are through a computer because I make reads about these situations all the time and Im dead on, a lot. (this one was especially fun) http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11...r-only-970094/ thats just the way i roll, no one is paying me for this stuff, i post what i would do and its based on how i perceive the situation.
Quote:
On the other hand, I see Renton is up $40K+ this month according to an independant tracker and I have never seen him post something that I thought was totally out there (his advice always seems super solid). And I also see that he put about two years worth of hands compared to you guys.

And fatdanny boy who also hangs around in this forum put in 4 years of "live play" by playing 200K hands and is up $60K this month.
this is bullshyt and shows how little you know about poker. 4 years takes 4 years! time is part of the equation, the most important part. time is what destroys fake pro poker players and leaves only the best. if you tilt and cant keep out of the pitts, or off coke, or out of nosebleed games you cant afford, then you suck at poker, no matter what you do in 4 bet pots. you will end up on the rail, chasing. and i will still be there watching, waiting, cleaning up. being a pro is all about putting in the time, anyone can play their a game for a while, when things are going well.

Quote:

Yet when Limon comes on here blabbing nonsense about "polarized balance" and rakeback pros...
i dont care about your terms...i was making fun of them.
Quote:
I just wish there was a way to get more hands. Like have a screen in front of every player and give you the option to add more tables from the same casino. So then you could be at commerce playing 10 tables while sitting down at one. That would be the day when I would be finally inspired to make it back to live pokers. But that also would probably kill live pokers fairly quickly.
why on earth do you want to play more hands, what is fun about a hand of poker? do you need the action? why not just play stakes that matter? why not play in big pots and learn to play those big pots perfectly with tons of info available instead of a million little baby pots by remote controll? strange. youre thinking about the game wrong, you need to work on your fundamentals. the goal is money, not hands.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:57 PM   #199
zachvac
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

lol limon you realize that if you play 1.2 million hands/yr and make 10c/hand vs. play 60k hands/yr at $2/hand (assuming it takes the same amount of hours) that although both your hourly and yearly salary are the same, your likelihood of actually ending with that amount is by far higher in the first scenario? The guys making probably not much more than 200k/yr on average are playing in 10k+ pots on not a regular basis but it certainly isn't rare to see those pots at 5/10 and they're outright common at 10/25. Meanwhile it's possible the guy making the same amount online in the same number of hours probably hasn't been in a hand over 2k. I'll take the game where I don't have a chance of playing a pot the size of 20% of my expected annual salary. If I wanted to make my money that way I'd just play mtts.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:08 PM   #200
limon
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Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

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Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
lol limon you realize that if you play 1.2 million hands/yr and make 10c/hand vs. play 60k hands/yr at $2/hand (assuming it takes the same amount of hours) that although both your hourly and yearly salary are the same, your likelihood of actually ending with that amount is by far higher in the first scenario? The guys making probably not much more than 200k/yr on average are playing in 10k+ pots on not a regular basis but it certainly isn't rare to see those pots at 5/10 and they're outright common at 10/25. Meanwhile it's possible the guy making the same amount online in the same number of hours probably hasn't been in a hand over 2k. I'll take the game where I don't have a chance of playing a pot the size of 20% of my expected annual salary. If I wanted to make my money that way I'd just play mtts.
well, firstly, you wont take that game if you live in america because it doesnt exist anymore and secondly if your gonna be involved in poker as a serious player and are properly rolled youll end up at your expectation sooner or later so counting hands just doesnt really matter. if your playing above your roll youll go broke in either scenario.
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