Jloc please ban this troll.

EDIT: Just saw some of your other posts and not even worthy of a useful reply.

Since I became the Mod of this forum I have probably edited about 8 posts (10 tops), 6-7 of which have been yours. I wonder why that is? Most everybody else of the 232,000 members don't seem to take issue with the rules in place in this forum. Maybe you are just exceptionally bad at posting?
You say this is an online forum full of adults yet you continuously act like a child (and if I'm not mistaken you pretty much are still). I was unaware that what constitutes being an adult is being able to be rude to others. In fact that sounds like a quality you get from a child, not an adult.
I think everyone is capable of handling a "little somethin somethin". I think most prefer not to have to do so. Telling people to GTFO is just plain disrespectful. Someday you will learn how to properly communicate with others and not have to resort to such rudeness. You will also learn that speaking in such a tone will often yield you less than desired results than had you otherwise spoken intelligently and with a bit more class and respect. Respect begets respect.
I have no idea how being insulted is in any way related to "being ready for MSNL". You telling someone to GTFO or calling them a name does not somehow increase their ability to learn or play the game. Pissing wars and insults are a part of all walks of life, not just relegated to poker. This does not mean that it is right or should be condoned. Being the bigger man is to be able to rise above this pettiness, not participate in it. And many here find it pleasant to be able to come to a place where they can avoid such insults and pissing wars that permeate our society and every day life. It can be a nice break.
I have had only a couple of posts reported to me and the others are just me seeing some form of trolling/leveling/derailing and removing it. I have gotten far more positive feedback from how this forum is being run over negative so I would say that for the most part people are quite pleased with its current state. In fact, at this point you are really the only one left who consistently puts up a fight about the changes implemented.....hmm.

There are dozens of other forums on this site. Nobody is twisting your arm to spend your time in this one. There are 3 chat threads in this forum and I have never once edited or moderated one word in them. They are there for you to be as obnoxious as you'd like. My suggestion to you is to stay confined to those threads where you can spread your hatred and animosity. There is a sticky at the top of the page along with this whole thread that pretty much asks posters to simply not post in strategy threads if they have nothing to contribute. I am amazed at the difficulty you seem to have in accepting this one very simple rule.

jlocdog, JumanjiBoard just needs a timeout. Just ban him for like 3 days and ask him to stand at the corner facing the wall.

You're real mature guy. Just listening to the sound of your posts you sound like a bitter child. Even more so then I'm supposed to "be". Won't respond to you anymore since it seems you're just attempting to troll me.

I just wanted to again thank everyone who participates in this forum for being courteous and showing respect to one another, putting forth the effort and taking the time for one another, and slowly but surely making this the premiere strategy forum to go to for quality discussion.

cool story bro

Best way to get better discussion would only let some people in and have it not be publicly viewed. Seeing as that would never happen because it's contrary to 2p2's business interests not sure what else you could do. Like no one good is going to post strat that gives stuff away when lotta lurkers/posters that suck and thus don't benefit the poster much are just going to get so much and not give anything back. I also don't think it's a bad thing that 2p2 lacks the strategy content it used to have. It's more a social and networking tool now so you post on 2p2 find people then you can exchange strat discussion and if someone's just leeching off you ignore them but actually talk with people you know are going to give back etc. I think by the time most players get to midstakes they already have a group of people they talk strat with so don't have that much a need to post strat here. That's basically why I've been playing midstakes last few months but still post in ssfr I just know everyone there and if I ever do post a hand here on 2p2 it's like dumb spot if it required enough analysis for mid-high I'd never post it on 2p2 in the first place and doubt I'm alone there. Few times if I see someone post interesting hand and I somewhat know them I'll pm/im them my thoughts but seriously why would I post anything that would let other people playing in the same games I am know how I think? Like knowing how someone thinks about the game leads to a much bigger edge against them than just knowing what they'd do in one specific spot. Anyway meant to be short I think I just wrote an essay but yeah.

but jloc seriously first you complain that no one (a lot of posters which are outted on poker sites) posts strat anymore in this forum then the next you say you won't post any screen names "for obvious reasons"? Am I the only one who sees something slightly ironic about that?

wakeup- thanks!

zachvac- you seem to be all over the map with your post so I'm going to break it up and respond in pieces.
Yes, holding discussion where no one can see it does go against a public forums business model and fundamental reason for existence. If your strategy discussion needs are best met away from 2p2 amongst a group of friends then by all means use the social networking tools that best fits your preferences. I think you are missing the reason that this forum exists.
I have seen this written before and again I will say...this is just plain rude to say about the many posters who do post quality strategy. Just because you choose to refrain from offering advice (fine), does not give you the right to insult those that do. I understand WHY you choose not to post strategy (lurkers not giving back being just one of the reasons) and I accept it and respect it. Please grant this same courtesy to those who approach it from another angle. Remember, we all have different motivations for learning and playing the game. We all learn differently and have different goals we desire to achieve within the game. Don't mock, insult, or degrade how others attempt to achieve their goals.
Don't confuse 2p2 as a forum with MHFR as a subforum. 2p2 is a social networking tool that allows people with a common interest (poker) to come and discuss an array of topics, headlined by its poker content (but not limited to). MHFR is a sub forum within 2p2 that is here to discuss strategy on mid-high stakes full ringed games. The existence of a couple "official" threads remain because of the bond you speak of specifically created within this community...the MHFR community. If you wish to converse with fellow poker players/friends on 2p2 that doesn't involve strategy discussion, I encourage you to look at the many other sub forums within 2p2 to find your desired topic. But please don't forget this sub forum, MHFR, is a strategy forum first and foremost.
Sure. Maybe most players do. And good for them. But what about the other group of players? The ones who aren't in that group or choose to otherwise partake in many different groups? What about those that find they learn better when they can get completely objective advice from perfect strangers who hold no biases or have intimate knowledge of their game or their opponents game? Does it ever happen where you find your relationship/dynamic with a player vastly differs from your friends relationship/dynamic with that same player? Maybe you run well above expectation vs them. Maybe your style better suits your play against them. Maybe you tilted them into playing far worse then normal. Maybe a hundred different reasons. Stop judging.
Every community had to start from somewhere. SSFR has been around long enough to create a solid community of posters and friends alike. MHFR was a byproduct of this community. SSFR got to a point of becoming too big where it lost its identity and became less intimate. The noise went up while the quality of content went down. Thus MHFR was born. And now we create and build this community. You are more than welcome to be apart of it. We are an inviting group. If you feel you have a hand worth discussing, you are more than welcome to test the waters here or just continue to post in SSFR or on ichat/AIM with some friends. Makes no difference to me.
A shame we can't all be privy to your thoughts on hands but as stated numerous times by me, I understand and respect your stance. The state of the game HAS changed and I acknowledge that. The game is much more popular, the stakes and payouts more lucrative, and the overall competitiveness heightened. I never questioned why someone chooses not to participate.
I have never once complained about no one posting strategy advice. I have always taken issue with those that block people from doing so. As for your claim about "not posting screen names for obvious reasons", I'm not sure what you are referring to but if it has to do with my previous exchange with jumanji then I think you misinterpreted the dialogue. Just to summarize, he wanted to know my screen name for credential purposes. I said he was more than welcome to enter any thread that I was posting in and challenge my posts. Those were my credentials and they are always up for debate.

Furthermore, my opinion on naming specific screen names is one that it is generally bad for business (as you say) and think a small description can/should be able to do the job. Seems counter intuitive to reveal how you would play vs a specific person allowing them to adapt to your approach. If you're going to go out of your way to defend a stance on how information is valuable (thus the lack of posting), don't you think giving away the most critical piece of information (when you do participate) may not be in your best interest?
No worries from this end. That is the whole point of this thread. Hopefully I have cleared some things up for you. And just for the record, though I acknowledge that we still have room to increase in size and improve in content, I am more than pleased with the rate of growth in both fields. Baby steps, remember...

lol you totally misunderstood me where did I ever do any of the things you listed (mock, insult, etc.)? I don't really read MH too often but in ssfr the players that I feel are the best at their stakes hardly post any strat. That's just a fact and really hard to argue against. From the bit I've read of mid-high once in awhile a good thread will come around and lot of people post in depth responses on stuff and I learn a lot. Not quite sure why they do it but w/e up to them. I wasn't saying they were doing anything wrong just that as a whole it seems the better players don't post much strat. And there are perfectly good reasons why.

Meh you can say it as much as you want doesn't make it true. Bottom line is majority of strategy discussion does not happen on 2p2. Again I'm just stating facts. I talk to more SSFR guys so don't know a ton about this sub-forum but I'll talk to someone for a long time about some spots/hands/etc. on aim whereas that kind of in-depth analysis hardly ever happens on 2p2 which again makes perfect sense because people that benefit are the lurkers who don't contribute to it at all. If I'm going to give up information to someone else I need to know they are reciprocating back. You can say what the goal of 2p2 is again and again but it is what it is and that's largely a place for poker players to talk to other poker players and talk about random **** in their lives, ****-talk, and yes there is some strategy discussion. But I think the time has passed where anyone comes to 2p2 for the sole purpose of strat discussion. They either have a core of people who's opinions they respect or they're just poker gods like Song and were born with the ability to crush souls while 40-tabling.


lol what? How am I judging? You're getting super defensive when all I'm doing is stating facts. The facts are that most people when they get into a tough spot their first thought is not to post it on 2p2 it is to ask someone else who's opinion they respect. Dynamics/reads/metagame can be communicated through these beautiful things called words. I can actually type out that this session I've 3b him the last 10 times he's opened and then the players I believe are good players will likely be able to process this information and come to similar conclusions about how it affects his range as me/anyone else. In fact if anything the reasons you list make it better to talk to people who know your game better and probably has already discussed a hand with you against that opponent and has already seen examples of how they react.

Yeah I've posted a bit just like I said know so many people in ssfr and to me 2p2 is more about the social atmosphere than the poker atmosphere and besides there are plenty of really solid poker players that still post in ssfr so I post there despite the fact that I've played mostly midstakes last couple months. That's just my choice and obv everyone else free to do w/e they want.

My point was the entire point of this was not enough strat was taking place. That leads me to think that you believe people who post here are not posting enough strat, unless you want strat discussions to just appear out of mid air. Then you go and say you don't want to out your sn, presumably for metagame/not giving away your reads/tendencies idk maybe I'm just overthinking it but even though you seem fine with individuals not wanting to post strat you still are saying in general lack of strat in mid-high is a problem which implies you want more people to post strat which would give away the stuff you outting your sn would give away about you...

- Maybe you have misunderstood me. When you say things like "no one good is going to post strategy", you are insulting precisely those that are currently posting strategy. Do you see that?

- I'm pleased you "see a lot of people post in depth responses on stuff and I learn a lot" . That is the point of this community. What makes them do it is their own set of motives and priorities. To learn, to teach, to give back, to socialize and interact, etc. To each his own. A shame that you don't reciprocate as I know how that is an annoyance of yours in regards to other lurkers, right?

- I understand exactly why many choose not to post strategy advice here anymore. It does not take rocket science to understand peoples reasonings. You seem to think that I either don't or that I want to convert these posters. I don't.

- You continuously reiterate how the majority of strategy talk is away from 2p2. I'm not sure how that is either relevant to anything or affects what I am doing in this forum the least bit. I'm pleased you have a network of friends that you bounce ideas off of. Congratulations. Anything that happens outside of this site (and for these discussions, outside this sub forum) doesn't concern me. It has no bearing on what takes place here. There is more sports discussion taking place on other forums, news outlets, and amongst my close friends. Does that mean I shouldn't participate in the sporting events forum? I am not trying to match what you 'get' and that is what you are missing.

- Again, you confuse 2p2 as a whole and MHFR as a sub forum. 2p2 is mainly a site where people gather to discuss random crap, make friends/connections, and goof off. MHFR is a forum within 2p2 that is mainly for strategy discussion. This is what you seem to not comprehend. The players that don't wish to discuss strategy or keep confined to the 2 chat threads are not welcome here in this forum. They are welcome to participate in the wide array of other forums (depending on that forums FAQ) but this forum is specifically for strategy discussion. Do you get that now?

- You seem to think that just because many good players choose not to post strategy anymore on 2p2 that that means it is dead. You do realize that this site is growing exponentially every year, month, day, right? Just because you are already established does not make it where others can't reach the point you have. And many of these other players will use 2p2 to get there. We don't just stop strategy discussion because you deem all the good players gone and that is that. Good players can go bad. Bad players can become good.

- Please keep in mind that many on these boards have learned a great deal from others who have been kind enough to share their thoughts. I assume you are one of many who have reaped the many benefits from this sites strategy discussions. Now that you have gotten to a point that you feel you are comfortable with you decide you don't need it and are ready to move on to other things. That's fine. But others like to give back. They may not be as greedy or self serving. Or, they may just find that they continue to learn when they express their thoughts in written form. Regardless, strategy forums still serve a purpose to many and that should be respected even if you aren't one of them.

- 2p2 is not a one stop shop, you are right. I never claimed that nor have I ever thought that was the best way to utilize this site. The reason it is so popular is precisely because of its variety. But it can only have variety if you let it. So there are many sub forums on this site that deal with other stuff ranging from politics to sports to literally talking sh*t about random sh*t. This one in particular (MHFR) happens to deal with strategy....one of its varieties.

- Sometimes I like a fresh perspective on a hand. One that isn't tainted or biased by a friend who may have intimate knowledge of the situation. This does not mean that I also don't want their opinions. I do. But sometimes I also want to run it by others who have no affiliation with me, my game, my opponents, or the dynamic created. I'm not sure why having the ability to gain both perspectives is a bad thing. You prefer to only ask a handful of close friends that you respect...fine. Others may choose to broaden their feedback base in order to help clarify something. It's not that a random will give you more/better information necessarily. It's just a unique interpretation that may trigger an eye opening or a leak/strength in ones game. Again, we all learn through different channels.

- If you decided that you post in SSFR because that is where you came through the ranks then why are you in the middle of a discussion about MHFR and its ways? Why are you so concerned about how I am trying to do things in this forum? The beauty of this site is that each sub forum has its own flavor, its own style. It's what makes 2p2 so attractive to many. Some forums are more serious than others and some are more informative than others and some have softer and harsher tones and so on. SSFR and MHFR are not run the same. The beauty for you is that you have a choice on where to spend your time. You seem to have made your choice. So why are you writing paragraphs about an activity you don't want to do (post strategy) in a forum (MHFR) that you choose not to participate in?

- This thread was originally started 10 months ago. Back when there was NO strategy talk and each and every thread was permeated with levels, rudeness, disrespect, trolling, and an objective to sabotage and quell any remanence of strategy discussion from ever taking place. The reason not enough strategy talk was taking place here was because it was unable to thrive. I have since removed the trolling and rude behavior that existed and let this forum evolve. Whether or not you deem the players who post here to be the best players, good players, or terrible players does not concern me. What does is allowing for strategy discussion to have the opportunity to take place. And it has...and it does...and it will continue...

- I have zero clue what your last bit is trying to say in regards to my SN. But to clear up once and for all, if you choose to out your SN go right ahead. By no means is this a prerequisite in posting a hand or offering an opinion. My SN is not outed and I choose to keep this privacy. I have no idea how this affects how others wish to provide strategy content. I have offered my views on using SNs in hand histories. I don't believe they are necessary as a small description will do just fine. I'm not sure what that has to do with my intent on getting good discussion to flow through this forum. And again, if this has something to do with my credentials than I encourage you to debate any point I make within the threads that you disagree with.

- Go back a year and browse some threads to get an idea of the transition that this forum has and is taking on. From the start, I said that if we remove the rudeness and trolling and allow for discussion to be had free from ridicule that this forum would slowly get some respectability and quality content. It has and is accomplishing just that. If you want to participate you are more than welcome. If you want to abstain you are more than welcome. What you or anyone else is not welcome to do is stifle strategy talk because you don't believe in it or want to make someone look bad. That is all. Very simple message. You seem to think I am in the business of trying to convert people to posting strategy. I really could care less for the players who choose to abstain. My concern is with the many new faces and rejuvenated old ones who enjoy holding strategy talks here and I offer them a place of to carry out these activities.

edit to add- I see that you post strategy advice just about every day in SSFR, uNL and HUNL. So now I am really confused as to your whole point here. Are you not a good player (since good players don't post strategy anymore, remember)? Do you just have something against this specific forum (you seem to not take issue with posting strategy content in other forums)? Is your purpose to just let everyone know that you have a network of friends that discusses strategy outside of this forum (don't we all)? Regardless, I've said what I need to say and hopefully I have cleared up some of your misconceptions about my objectives and goals here. Either way, good luck to you.

jloc.. tldr

going to require some cliffs

Just saw this thread...I'm really happy this forum exists; it helps people like me get way better at poker, and I appreciate it immensely

lol that's a lot of text just sorta skimmed it but lol at saying I post strat advice just about every day in HUNL. All I do in HUNL is troll almost worked to get a HU match but apparently I didn't troll hard enough gonna ask pettey for lessons. Seriously I don't think I have one serious post in that forum. Every couple months I post in some random thread there telling them how almost all HU players are terrible bumhunters (best was the HUsng regs "calling out" other regs who would sit with them lol) flame back and forth a few posts then I forget all about it and go back to posting in ssfr (and occasionally ufr). I don't even know what this is even about anymore so I guess I'll just leave. Was trying to give you a perspective of why so much strat isn't posted but you've gone off on so many random tangents. Only reason I'm here was there was discussion in FTP thread about possible shady stuff that people thought I may have been involved in. Then I saw this thread and just figured I'd let you know my thoughts on why I don't post here more often. Sorry if I seemed arrogant/like a dick that wasn't my intention but I'm tired of arguing (hard to do for me so you've accomplished a great feat) so I'm just gonna ignore this thread now I think. Hope you get whatever it is you want from this forum!