Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2010, 04:22 PM   #1
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Discussion on MHSNL-FR

As of this moment, this strategy based forum severely lacks both quality and quantity. My goal is to boost both of those and it will be done without the use of disrespect and derailment.

If you have any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas on how we can better this forum please offer them here.

**I do want to say though that this thread WILL remain civil in its debate. The idea of this thread is for people to express ideas, not to belittle or disrespect others. If leveling and trolling is your only goal within your participation on 2p2, I suggest you go elsewhere.
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:23 PM   #2
TucoRamirez
veteran
 
TucoRamirez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: gslp 4life
Posts: 2,360
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

first

add 200NL to MSNL?

also, lose the live threads imo
TucoRamirez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:32 PM   #3
DoubleFly
Pooh-Bah
 
DoubleFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Still Bloggin, Stakin, & Affiliatin
Posts: 5,987
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Call me selfish, but I've ceased to participate in hand threads where I don't know the OP's sn or don't know them as regular posters. Too many randoms that don't particpate or add anything to the forums wanting feedback. Not that my feedback is that useful. :-)
DoubleFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:33 PM   #4
Adam27X
veteran
 
Adam27X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York/New Jersey border
Posts: 2,083
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Quote:
Originally Posted by TucoRamirez View Post
first

add 200NL to MSNL?

also, lose the live threads imo
The problem with this is that SSFR would only have 100nl. If this is the solution I guess SSFR could be 50nl and 100nl, then MSFR be 200nl+? It's an interesting idea...
Adam27X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #5
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

For any suggestions to be taken seriously, you will need to back up your stance please.

I will say quickly that 200NL is in the 6max SSNL forum and I think we should stay closely to the guidelines they have set in regards to what stakes belonging where...

Not to mention, SSNL-FR is a great forum with outstanding mods and many quality contributors. There is no need to make 2 homes for one purpose.

The live hands being banned will not happen in this forum nor any other strategy forum....ever. This is just a fact that you will have to deal with and work around.
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:35 PM   #6
AllTheCheese
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AllTheCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sad life; won't change
Posts: 9,256
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Why not just ditch it and have FR regs post in the 6-max forum? At 400NL+, haven't most regs gotten over the weird FR nittiness that distinguishes the game from 6-max?
AllTheCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:40 PM   #7
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Double,

I think your feedback can often be quite useful and I appreciate the effort when you give it. I completely understand your not wanting to give information when you view the people receiving it as not reciprocating this action. Offering strategy advice is 100% your choice and I respect any choice you ultimately make.
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #8
thepizzlefosho
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 6,212
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

what about just letting the forum organically be what it is, and if your problem is with people posting levels and trolling the strat threads than punish them for it. temp bans are probably a good start, and full bans if people refuse to stop. there are rarely any interesting strat threads, but the forum still has life through the occasional strat, the occasional well, and the regs threads. And it seems to me that is likely that is what the members want. if the people that consist of and build the community are happy with the forum they have then why should we condemn that construct or try and alter it?

it seems to me that you really have a problem with how one aspect of the forum is functioning, but you're looking for sweeping suggestions that would cause wholesale changes to the forum as we know it. However those changes would eliminate what most of the members come here for, without necessarily accomplishing your goal (a place where people can feel comfortable asking for and discussing strat about MHFR hands).

I really think if the mods just took an active step to prevent trolling and levels in the strat threads, but left the rest alone things would be fine. I also think that you should make a live poker forum because the live threads/questions are so often really simplistic and basic that it really seems absurd that we would expect the members of this forum to take them seriously. I mean if I walked up to an aero-space engineer when he was discussing work stuff with a colleague and asked him extremely mundane questions that anyone who took physics could answer and expected him to take time to give me serious and thoughtful response most people would laugh at me. that's essentially what is happening here with the live threads. instead of encouraging us to cater to these people why don't we create a forum where their questions are much more likely to be appropriate to their skill level and thus create more valuable discussion.
thepizzlefosho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:48 PM   #9
newschool2
banned
 
newschool2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Not important: Text wall response
Posts: 5,293
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

I think with the current state of twoplustwo forums I would only start posting good strat if I was paid to do so.

Last edited by newschool2; 02-08-2010 at 04:50 PM. Reason: in this market u are either a slut or a whore imo
newschool2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 04:55 PM   #10
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

oldschool,

Again, that is a perfectly acceptable stance. All I would like is for you to then stay out of the precise threads you wish not to participate in. I don't see a problem with that, do you?

Also, I thought one of the stipulations of having the moniker "sponsored coach" was that you are supposed to be posting "good strat".
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:09 PM   #11
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

pizzle,

Quote:
what about just letting the forum organically be what it is, and if your problem is with people posting levels and trolling the strat threads than punish them for it. temp bans are probably a good start, and full bans if people refuse to stop. there are rarely any interesting strat threads, but the forum still has life through the occasional strat, the occasional well, and the regs threads. And it seems to me that is likely that is what the members want. if the people that consist of and build the community are happy with the forum they have then why should we condemn that construct or try and alter it?
I absolutely agree with this and am doing my best to allow for this to happen. I have left (and will continue to leave) the "official" threads alone in regards to there content and posting style. I have only asked that anyone who chooses to take part in strategy discussion in this fourm, please do so with respect and not to derail them.

Quote:
it seems to me that you really have a problem with how one aspect of the forum is functioning, but you're looking for sweeping suggestions that would cause wholesale changes to the forum as we know it. However those changes would eliminate what most of the members come here for, without necessarily accomplishing your goal (a place where people can feel comfortable asking for and discussing strat about MHFR hands).
I decided that I would make this thread to keep the possibility of wholesale changes possible is all. I also wanted to create a public 'forum' for people to list their complaints AND how to proactively solve these issues. As of now, the only thing I have implemented and warned people about was something that there was always a sticky about in the first place....created by another mod. It said (before I edited it), "if you don't wish to post strategy in the strategy threads, DON"T POST IN THERE THEN". I am just upholding this rule.
Quote:
I really think if the mods just took an active step to prevent trolling and levels in the strat threads, but left the rest alone things would be fine. I also think that you should make a live poker forum because the live threads/questions are so often really simplistic and basic that it really seems absurd that we would expect the members of this forum to take them seriously. I mean if I walked up to an aero-space engineer when he was discussing work stuff with a colleague and asked him extremely mundane questions that anyone who took physics could answer and expected him to take time to give me serious and thoughtful response most people would laugh at me. that's essentially what is happening here with the live threads. instead of encouraging us to cater to these people why don't we create a forum where their questions are much more likely to be appropriate to their skill level and thus create more valuable discussion.
I have never done anything other than what you suggest. And again, I completely agree with your message and I am trying to fulfill it. There is more than enough room for everybody (and then some) in this forum and I am happy to have all types of posters. Just post where it is proper to post is all.

As for a live forum, it is just not happening. There is no need to go down that path yet again. We can easily coexist in this forum, and I will do what I can to make this very thing happen. Giving live players (who typically seem thinner skinned in regards to what they think is harsh) a place to post where those very comments are unacceptable is a byproduct of the no-troll/level zone.
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:23 PM   #12
thepizzlefosho
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 6,212
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

sounds good. thanks for the response.
thepizzlefosho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:28 PM   #13
BotOnTilt
old hand
 
BotOnTilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: One to the left of the button.
Posts: 1,512
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

For completely selfish reasons I'd like to see the SSFL merged with this section. Just so that we'd get the mid/high-stakes posters to participate there more. Actually one of the reasons I chose to play full-ring was that at the time FR was one forum while 6M was divided into several. It really helped my game when the small stakes players replied to my posts when I played in the micros. Many still post below the level they play, which I am grateful for.
BotOnTilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:31 PM   #14
jimmyvjv13
Life Grinder
 
jimmyvjv13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Repping Aces @ZepHendrix
Posts: 4,975
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

jloc,

After your post in the 5/5 thread I understand what you're saying and I respect that.
jimmyvjv13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:31 PM   #15
hard2tel
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
hard2tel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 15,221
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

It seems like the most logical thing to do would be to combine this forum with the small FR forum. The mods can stop the trolling and stuff but that doesn't change the fact that few people if any care enough to post more than 1 line of strat or treat this forum as anything but a meeting place to chat.

The hands would get much better discussion in the other forum anyway. And someone can just make a 400nl+ regs thread or something. Everybody wins.
hard2tel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:45 PM   #16
jlocdog
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lake Tahoe/NYC
Posts: 5,368
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Jimmy,

Thanks a lot man. I truly do appreciate it.

Hard2tel, Botontilt,

This forum was split from the SSNL-FR exactly because the regs in this forum wanted it that way. When it was one forum, people complained there were too many remedial posts. Funny how we have come full circle. We see what a ghost town does to a forum (look at it right now) and we see what an overpacked, too many bad posts, monkey house is like (SSNL-FR a few years ago). I would like to strike a balance right in the middle. We will get there...
jlocdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 07:10 PM   #17
Deanglow
Pooh-Bah
 
Deanglow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: little china
Posts: 5,276
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

I just think live FR should have its separate forum. One for 1/2-2/5 and one for 5/10 plus, and maybe nosebleed hands are posted in HSNL. Pizzle makes a valid comparison saying that most questions are VERY basic and are not even worth discussing seriously. There are a few good online hands a week that get good posts in them from good regs
Deanglow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 09:01 PM   #18
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,726
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Jloc,

I appreciate your attitude toward live posts in this forum. It may be difficult for the relatively low limit 3/5-5/5nl posters to understand if their questions are advanced enough for this forum, but hopefully you and others can let them know, or just move their threads to uSFR as needed.

I would also encourage some of the online gurus to keep an open mind to live posts, which are as a whole less up to par fundamentally than on line. Of course there are plenty of posts which are too basic for this forum. But, sometimes I really think that sentiment is misguided, and that the online player is simply not considering all of the unique factors in live play leading up the situation in question.

There are a lot of differences between the two arenas of play: the standard preflop raises often skew the SPR's - effectively making every pot equivalent to 3bet pots online and 100bb's becomes short stack poker, or that a black chip is considered a "big bet" to many players whether the pot is $100 or $500 (much more scared money live), differences in picking up reads and their degree of accuracy, and many many other characteristics of live play which affect decision making. These differences lead to quite a few really thought provoking situations for which I suspect even fundamentally great online players could have trouble finding the "optimal line." In fact, too often I believe they wrongly dismiss live posts without giving them much real thought because they believe they are the "aero-space engineer" in the previous reply.

Here are a couple of recent examples from the uSFR, I'd like some expert comments on:

I'm not completely sold on Split's take that we should just fold AK here preflop.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...-raise-697323/

And here's a pretty common live situation that I don't know how to avoid playing really weakly or end up losing all my chips half the time (I usually rely heavily on my reads but often end up take the weak line):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...rn-get-704438/
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 09:49 PM   #19
dankness3
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,447
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

While I understand where your coming from foldndark, I know that I'm not the only one on here who has, in a relatively short amount of time, developed an extremely negative prejudice towards any and all live hands that are posted. I just find soo many of them to be extremely trivial snap calls/shoves that should never even need to be talked about afterward, let alone have a thread started in their honor. Maybe thats just my opinion. But this forum def needs some more strat.
dankness3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 10:04 PM   #20
RosaParks
veteran
 
RosaParks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Trying to locate my fold button
Posts: 2,849
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Jloc,

I appreciate your attitude toward live posts in this forum. It may be difficult for the relatively low limit 3/5-5/5nl posters to understand if their questions are advanced enough for this forum, but hopefully you and others can let them know, or just move their threads to uSFR as needed.

I would also encourage some of the online gurus to keep an open mind to live posts, which are as a whole less up to par fundamentally than on line. Of course there are plenty of posts which are too basic for this forum. But, sometimes I really think that sentiment is misguided, and that the online player is simply not considering all of the unique factors in live play leading up the situation in question.

There are a lot of differences between the two arenas of play: the standard preflop raises often skew the SPR's - effectively making every pot equivalent to 3bet pots online and 100bb's becomes short stack poker, or that a black chip is considered a "big bet" to many players whether the pot is $100 or $500 (much more scared money live), differences in picking up reads and their degree of accuracy, and many many other characteristics of live play which affect decision making. These differences lead to quite a few really thought provoking situations for which I suspect even fundamentally great online players could have trouble finding the "optimal line." In fact, too often I believe they wrongly dismiss live posts without giving them much real thought because they believe they are the "aero-space engineer" in the previous reply.

Here are a couple of recent examples from the uSFR, I'd like some expert comments on:

I'm not completely sold on Split's take that we should just fold AK here preflop.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...-raise-697323/

And here's a pretty common live situation that I don't know how to avoid playing really weakly or end up losing all my chips half the time (I usually rely heavily on my reads but often end up take the weak line):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...rn-get-704438/
Hand 1 is a call. Folding is ****ing absurd. 4bet/calling and folding are both options depending

Hand 2 he shoulda jammed the turn himself.
RosaParks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 10:16 PM   #21
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,726
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Quote:
Originally Posted by dankness3 View Post
While I understand where your coming from foldndark, I know that I'm not the only one on here who has, in a relatively short amount of time, developed an extremely negative prejudice towards any and all live hands that are posted. I just find soo many of them to be extremely trivial snap calls/shoves that should never even need to be talked about afterward, let alone have a thread started in their honor. Maybe thats just my opinion. But this forum def needs some more strat.
True enough that there are quite a few simple live posts, so it's easy to see where the prejudice comes from. But they're not all that trivial. Just browse the uSFR and you'll see an array of basic to moderately interesting to pretty complex situations, many of which take a different set of analysis skills than quickly checking the HUD stats and moving on to the next table - not to simplify multitabling, which I certainly can't do well.
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 10:21 PM   #22
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,726
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Quote:
Originally Posted by RosaParks View Post
Hand 1 is a call. Folding is ****ing absurd. 4bet/calling and folding are both options depending

Hand 2 he shoulda jammed the turn himself.

Hand 1: at first I felt folding PF was pretty weak, but then after the discussion progressed and then the moderator and coach, Split, advocated folding PF, I'm not sure anymore. I think the thread has approached defining the situations where folding is optimal and when the 4betting line is best, but you're input would be highly regarded. BTW, flatting PF has pretty well been ruled out, but maybe you can give it more merit.

Hand 2: again, I advocated jamming the turn at first, but the more I consider this situation in real time the more I figure I'm probably losing my stack pretty often when I jam. So checking this TPTK OOP on the turn, though weak, is probably what I'm doing most of the time here.

Last edited by FoldnDark; 02-08-2010 at 10:30 PM.
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 10:23 PM   #23
jasons0147
Pooh-Bah
 
jasons0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: What goods a TV if u live in a box.
Posts: 4,599
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

I thought the current rule was that all live hands up to 2/5 were posted in uNL FR and 5/10 live hands were in SSNL FR? Doesnt that mean that we should only see live hands above 5/10 being posted in this forum?

edit: If im correct then there are currently three threads (thats just on the first page) that arent suppose to exist in this forum
jasons0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 10:52 PM   #24
jasons0147
Pooh-Bah
 
jasons0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: What goods a TV if u live in a box.
Posts: 4,599
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

After looking at this to see if I was right it looks like there is a little confusion.

Posted by Mpethy in SSNL FR (stickied)
Quote:
Please note the new forum description. Online NL/PL $100 through NL $200 and 5/10 live.

The change was the result of a lot of discussion and analysis in the ATF and Mod forums. New non-conforming live hands will be moved starting 10/20/09.
Posted by Soah in MSNL FR (stickied)

Quote:
The full ring forums have adopted new guidelines for where to post hands. 1/2 and 2/5 live hands now belong in Micro Stakes Full Ring and/or in Small Stakes Full Ring. 5/10+ belong here.
jasons0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:16 PM   #25
OMGitsCheddar
Pooh-Bah
 
OMGitsCheddar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,356
Re: Discussion on MHSNL-FR

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
Why not just ditch it and have FR regs post in the 6-max forum? At 400NL+, haven't most regs gotten over the weird FR nittiness that distinguishes the game from 6-max?
DC has a small/mid/high forum, and then one FR forum for all stakes.


It's pretty incredible the difference between this forum and the SH hand. I'll post FR hands there sometimes just to get a decent response
e.g. posted this there last month
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56...l-99-a-694035/

And I don't mean any disrespect to the level festival atmosphere here, I actually both kind of like it and understand it.

I mean, it's true that the regular posters here play with each other everyday so I can see a reason why they never ask for help with a hand - couple that with the fact that if you are a winning 400nl+ reg these days, you're pretty much going to have a solid network of people you can hit up on AIM, which is far better than any advice you'll get from strangers or at least you won't have to filter advice so to speak by posting on a public forum. And the randoms (re: live players) never give any advice on other hands unless someone calls them out for posting like 4 hands in 20 minutes, and then they post some gibberish in someone else's thread ad hoc.

All that said, I see where the green-name guy is coming from and I appreciate his efforts because I think I'm the vary narrow demographic - online players trying to move up - of people that will benefit from this.
OMGitsCheddar is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online