I'm playing on a "Deep Stack" 2/5 game, The game is been playing pretty loose so far, I have about 2.5k, My image on the table is solid TAG.


UTG opens 3x (15 it's a 2/5 game), UTG is a solid okish Live reg sitting with ~3k ( from what I know I don't think his 3x raise is anything special , I think he is the type to raise more with his premiums ) Anyways there is about 5-7 callers after him , I'm in the BB with QQ , I have 2.5k and he covers most of the rest of the table has 1-2k. with a few fish in the pot and some ok players. From the way the table has been going if I make it 100 I have reason to believe it will go 4 ways to the flop pretty often.

I...?

Me and a few friends are debating on the pros and cons versus 3betting and flatting being this deep

The first step is to think about how deep everyone really is if you 3bet 100 and get 3 callers. Pot is $400 and the SPR is anywhere from 2.5 to 6. The IO for a caller is 25:1 at best, with some down to 10:1. That isn't a deep play situation.

In addition, $100 isn't that big of a raise with 7 people already in the pot of 105. If you went to a 2/3 PS raise, it would be 180. At that point, you'll narrow the field and make it mistake for anyone to call set mining. Winning a 21BB pot pf is a nice win for QQ oop.

Certainly a raise of anything between 100-180 is enough to turn this into a medium stack situation. Therefore, I'd raise whatever amount it takes to get the number of callers you want.

Calling takes what is likely to be the best hand pf and turn it into a hand that is likely losing on the flop against 7 other players if you don't hit a set.

I can see flatting hu or maybe 3 handed, but with this many limpers you pretty much just need to pot it.

Yeah not flatting here. Probably make it at least 130-160 and playing poker post flop.

spot on post by venice imo. i think 150 will leave you with 0-2 callers the majority of the time and the SPR will be such that it will be difficult for you to have made a mistake by stacking off on most boards.

I'm 500bbs deep with the original PFR, and everyone else has between 200-300 bbs, If you ever played Live Poker you know that if one person calls they ALL call because **** it "Pot Odds"

My feeling is that I don't want to go 3-5 ways to the flop oop in a bloated pot, with a hand that has a lot of RIO odds being this deep.

Yeah, I think $130-$160 should be just enough to be able to go HU or maybe 2 callers to the flop at most. You'll have initiative and will be able to see how the PFR reacts once the raise comes back to him. I can see maybe calling if he was UTG and you were UTG+1 to see if any more squeezers come behind you, but with your position, I think you have to pop it up and expect to take it down 2/3rd's of the time.

Make it an amount you think the first guy will fold his 3x open range to.

If you don't 3bet your set mining. What are you afraid of? Unless you are never 3 betting and your hand is face up once you 3bet I don't see how this isnt going to 150+

Well I don't necessarily agree that it will be set mining I can win the pot with out hitting a set and get value, As for the 3betting, I think in this spot and the way I was playing thus far that when I 3bet it will be fairly obv what I have , of course the fish might not know, but any thinking player would know.

I don't see what the problem is with the fish/ok players over-calling, they're going to play pretty straightforward/bad against you without the initiative even if you are OOP. Plus it keeps the one good deep player from pulling too many moves on you postflop since he has to worry about all the other morons left to act. Just cbet like 20% of the pot or something goofy if you have to depending on what kind of board comes out (I feel super gay doing this but this hand from HSP is kind of the perfect example of how to play spots like this, obviously your 3bet squeezing range is nowhere near as wide as durrr's but you get the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYl1nhgd8NE)

In general though when we have queens/a big pair OOP vs an opponent who'll likely flat his entire range deep, a pretty good way to combat that if it goes HU vs him is to 3bet and then check a ton of boards (even if we almost certainly have the best hand). It lets us start the pot controlling process early, induces some stabs/valuecutting, and since good live players very rarely check the flop back with a monster to raise a turn lead we can generally be sure we have the nuts if it checks to the turn. We do lose some value from certain hands but it overall helps mitigate the positional disadvantage we have while still giving us the chance to pump a ton of money into the pot with the initiative when we do get a very favorable flop having already 3bet, which is harder to do when we just flat.

Just fyi, that flop bet sizing is probably only applicable is the very specific case of AAx, KKx, QQx, and maybe a few others.

u are overthinking it. 3bet to 120 then whats the flop?

ok I did I got 3 callers flop is J79ddx I don't have the Qd, ,pot is a little over $500 , What is your CB size?

$415