You're in a game where your hourly is probably among the highest in the room and the other regs know it. They know you play a TAG style but show down little and very aggressive when in a hand, disciplined to fold pre & post in spots, etc.

OK so now they start to 3bet you either from blinds or squeeze your open with more frequency. The guys doing it are friends so you're pretty sure they've discussed your game away from the table. They are tightish winning players in general and don't have major leaks. But you also know that they are 3betting you with a pretty wide range.. either to take control of the game so you tighten up and they get to play more hands with fish, or just simply because they think you will fold with discipline and they pad their hourly that way. A couple of times their 3bets and squeezes vs you gets called by fish goes to showdown and they show K5s/QTs/33/etc(but of course also with monsters that they didn't show). Usually this happens when stacksize is awkward at say 120-150bb.. they're good enough to realize that while they almost never win a big pot off you and rarely even want to get involved postflop with you, they can use aggression in spots to force you to fold and add to their hourly as described..

So do you start warring with these regs? Open tighter when they're OTB or in blinds? Or 4b lighter(esp IP)?

Or just sigh and fold your marginals every time because unless this cuts into your hourly(which it shouldn't if you make minor adjustments) then you still make a good amount per hour and don't need the variance?

What's your strategy?

First off, I wouldn't immediately presume they're owning you - I'm sure you've had sessions where people think you're running over the table but really you just got AK like eight times that didn't get to showdown whereas the one or two times you 3bet light you ended up tabling your hand. Plus unless these friends of yours are somehow writing down and constructing a database out of every hand they've played against you and running it through a program like CardRunnersEV and spending hours making EV calculations in order to completely make you their bitch (pretty unlikely), they don't have any genuine insights into your game beyond "yeah he isn't LAG and doesn't make your life hell so he'll fold a lot if you 3bet when not super deep".

Furthermore, who's to say their 3bet strategy is even all that profitable? I think I've only met two or three people at the 5/10 level (all of them ex-online players) who actually had done a ton of studying and calculations on how to assess how one's holdings play out against different parts of an opponent's range on each different types of board run-outs. The rest tend to just use a laughably antiquated strategy of only 3betting with a.) premiums or b.) stuff that isn't strong enough to call a raise with (like you said junky suited king-high/queen-high, suited three-gappers, etc. ) but they think that with the initiative they can make it profitable. Which isn't strictly incorrect, but since they haven't actually done the 'homework' of constructing ranges and figuring out definitively which hands are profitable or not in which positions vs which types of ranges, invariably they're really just sort of clicking buttons at random.

I fold 0% of the hands you are prob opening when I get 3bet oop. That's my strategy. They lose every time (even when they win) assuming we have money behind.

Not sure I'm reading correctly, you are saying when we are in position, yes?

Because yea so far one of the bigger leaks I've noticed at 5/10 is regs 3betting way to light with shallow (100bb) stacks or 3 betting way to small with deep stacks OOP. If someone wants to 3bet me OOP 200bb+ deep, God bless them.

I like to induce squeezes a lot as well...if some whale opens $40 early we are middle and some wizard is otb, I flat premiums a ton.

I do have 4 bet bluff strategy studying as one of my New Years resolutions. One of the bizzare things that I have noticed is regs flatting 4bets with like an SPR of like 2 which just seems terribad so I've still been hugely value heavy.

yeah, I like acting last a lot

Well if they are 3 betting light oop I don't see theproblem, but I doubt this is the case here. Seat change or tighten up a little and start 4 betting and cr more. I can't say when I do this it is independently profitable but it usually gets them to back off you enough to play against the fish. But when you get 99 to AA on a super good board it really sucks

Start by raising tpgk in a 3-bet pot and seeing what happens.

My best poker friend is visiting me and playing a lot of poker at the same table. He knows my game better than anyone, he's staying at my house, we hang out, etc. So the situation described in the OP comes up a lot. Even though we are great friends, we play to win and don't soft play at all. If anything, we prob go (a little bit) out of our way to beat each other lol. He's a much better player than I am and runs like the second coming vs me, so I'm down a **** ton vs him over the years.

Anyway....back to topic. My games usually play much deeper, easily 300BB++, often 1000BB+. So I would combat light 3bets by calling a lot when we have position even with marginal hands (ESP straight cards). I would 4bet at an increased frequency with blockers (KQo, QJo, A5s, ATo, etc). Also sometimes flat 3bets with AQ+, QQ+ and trap.

But I think it's important not to let ego affect your game too much and deviate from solid winning poker. Everyone is playing the same game, so we are all bounded by the same rules/constraints/maths. It's something I find myself in need of reminding everyday.... Good luck!

i just fold like a little bitch and wait for aces. poker is easier when you start with a premium

DGAF I like your thinking a lot.. nobody likes messing with winning players who don't fold IP to 3bets HU when deep.. this scenario isn't deep but I like your strategy when deep for sure..

Yeah if I'm getting 3 bet and I'm in position I'm flatting like 90%. Oop obviously is different.

Only 120bbs I'd start by opening smaller and 4betting lighter oop

It only takes a couple 4bets for most regs to stop

This is clearly the right answer.

But seriously...
I quite enjoy all these fake heros who try to battle with me at 9 handed tables. Seems pretty smart.

You're acting like Julian.

The OP wasn't really specifically related to my situation, just a general strategy post. However there's no ego in poker really, and folding to 3bets doesn't mean someone's owned you anyway.. who knows when they don't show that they might have a hand.. and nobody would suspect you folding strong hands esp if you actually opened light anyway.

Also most likely some reg who's decided to get aggro on a winning player and 3betting more often isn't doing it with a balanced strategy because they're a better player; it's far more likely that they're actually feeling inferior at going postflop with you therefore wanting to avoid that situation by becoming more aggro pre with an unbalanced range(and with no clear response if you ever decide to start flatting a lot more, or 4betting with a balanced range etc). This is especially the case if these regs have virtually never won big pots off me or even wanted to play big pots.

I think opening slightly tighter when they're in squeeze positions, and flatting a lot more when we're IP with some light 4bets thrown in occasionally sounds like a pretty good strategy.. generally speaking when deep if one starts 3betting light OOP vs good regs they're asking to get owned longterm.. 100-150bb is a little trickier but still over the longterm I'd put my money on the guy IP over 20 such pots to come away with more $$$ for sure.

You're right. Woke up this morning and realized my life is falling apart because some degen keeps tricking me into drinking for days straight. Didn't mean to take it out on the those reraising fellas.

Forgive me and carry on people...

The more preflop battling you do with the regs, the fewer pots you get to play with fun players.

120bb deep is a great spot to light 4bet. You should also probably be flatting out of position more than you are, or your opponents sizing is too large in which case you should be 4betting a lot more than you are. You might also be opening too large.

So just to be accurate, your saying that the Villains who 3 bet are usually the ones with the awkward stacks of 120 to 150 BB's right? If so that does make 4 betting interesting. But, you don't have to 4 bet big. Also, if you don't occasionally have some 4 bet bluffs in your range, your just leaving yourself open to getting 3 bet too often. And, there's no reason you can't call some of the 3 bets and play some post flop. There's a lot of boards you can take the pot away whether you hit or not. Just don't make a habit of doing this often, and against the wrong player. If you've played online cash at all. Light 3 betting, and 4 betting is pretty standard above $1/2 for years now.

Increase the strength of your flat OOP range while adding a few more Axs to your bluff4bet. Continue w/ your usualy value 4bet/gii of KK+.

I might also might turn a hand like AQs and put it into my 4bet range here but flat hands like 99-QQ, KQs etc.

AK i think proposes the most interesting conundrum as usually folks like to keep it whereever their KK/AA goes but I wonder in terms of range balance if its worth adding AK to the flatting range when promoting hand like AQs and other Axs like A2s-A5. Obviously not all A2s-A5s but the later the position you are the more of those i would add.

I'd also make sure my 4bet is easily just slightly over a min raise of the 3bet when 120-150BBs.

If you're better post flop than your opponents you can actually flat OOP a much stronger range and let them value cut themselves etc etc. Its more likely bigger mistakes will be made post flop than your opponents having a wildly imbalanced 5bet shove range full of bluffs and other nonsense.

I added the bold to the above. What are the normal raise/3bet sizes? When it is something like 3 big blinds to 11 big blinds or 4 big blinds to 14 big blinds or something like that, then I don't know what you mean by 120 - 150 big blind stack sizes being awkward. 150 might be a bit bigger, but around 120 big blinds is pretty much the perfect stack sizes for 4bet bluffs. It is more difficult for them to 5bet bluff at those stack sizes due to the amount they have to risk with a shove compared to the current size of the pot after the 4bet. It helps for you to have position as that makes it harder for them to flat your 4bet and go to post-flop.

My general strategy is to mostly 4bet my premiums, but vs. some opponents call with a few combos of them, 4bet bluff some hands (use hands with blockers for this) and, particularly when in position, call the 3bets with hands that can flop good equity. Obviously, one has to figure out exact frequencies and what hands to put into what ranges. And at some point vs. some opponents it will likely make sense to "value" 4bet some slightly less than premium hands and call a 5bet shove like 99,TT,AQ type hands, particularly when OOP. Don't forget to consider position dynamics though. Even given that they are 3betting you with a very wide range, they probably are not 3betting your EP opens with such a wide range, especially if you are playing full ring which I assume you are.

Also, it may make sense to tighten your opening range in some situations when there are people behind you who are 3betting you a ton. But if there is a fish whom you are trying to target, then being forced to tighten your range too much wouldn't be preferable.


Also, you mentioned them 3betting you with K5s, QTs, 33, etc. Those mentioned hands probably aren't hands they are 3betting with the intention of 5bet shoving. Maybe they will 5bet bluff sometimes or 3bet a hand like A4s with the intention to 5bet bluff shove, but what I am getting at is that some players in certain position dynamics (probably particularly if they know you 4bet a decent amount) will 3bet hands like 77,88,maybe AJ type hands with the intention of 5bet shoving. This goes along with what I said above about "at some point vs. some opponents it will likely make sense to "value" 4bet some slightly less than premium hands and call a 5bet shove like 99,TT,AQ type hands, particularly when OOP".

For 100bb stacks this preflop stuff is mostly Solved (in 6max)
Check out pokersnowie pf advisor for a pretty good guide
In terms of what optimal defending frequencies should Look like then adjust your ranges from there for fullring. Think it's probably better To err on the tighter side for full ring games and (generally) tighter ranges pf most online 6m midstakes games.
But yea. As long as your defending an appropriate % of your pf opening range. And not going nuts opening waaaay to many hands, you will be fine/balanced/tough to play against.
Especially vs your standard button clicking Live full ring reg who will be auto cbetting 2 much and all the standard stuff
You see.

tbh you just need to do some work away from the table to get good at defending vs 3bets. you have two options basically, take a more gto/balanced approach or an exploitative approach. if you want to take the former, you can start by doing what ebet suggests and look at the pokersnowie charts and adjust a bit to compensate for deeper stacks (which I do by playing more suited stuff and pairs and less offsuit stuff).

if you want to take a more exploitative approach I would just start off by 4betting them relentlessly both IP and OOP with a range like A2s-A5s, TT+ AJ+ ATs KQs KJs and see how they react, then adjust better than they do. most live players play legit horribly in 3b and 4b pots, so I wouldn't worry too much