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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-05-2017, 11:00 AM   #1
Alsi
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AK capped range facing resistance

Hi all this is a hand played in wynn macao.

Hero seen as loose - capable to stab when he feels weakness but rarely multi barrel with air.

V is korean pro on the tight side, barely seen him totally out of line.

5/10 usd in wynn macau

V raises UTG to 30, (eff stack 1k) fold to hero in SB who 3bet with AKo to 110,
V calls.

flop Ah9hQx, pot 230, hero bets 100, vilain calls.

pot 430
turn Tc, hero checks, vilain bets 200, hero tank calls.

pot 830
river Th, hero checks, vilain tank - act - all in eff 590


at this stage I do not beat:
JTs (would JTs bet turn? for a planned river bluff?)
or QTs... or 9Ts (would have bet more on the turn?)
I dont see a hand that I beat there... he can even have QQ or 99?

I think whatever vilain s value hand, even if turn he only bet 200 - it does not mean anything because my hand could be pretty face up and capped.

Probably I should have bet myself the turn to uncap my range?

or with the Th out I cannot beat anything anymore?
I think here is a clear fold?

I think another More interesting question is - what should we do on Blank river facing shove?
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:30 PM   #2
Petrucci
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Yeah i mean the flop isnt exactly a dream flop for you when serious money starts to go in, even though we hold AK for top-top. Both 99,QQ and AQ is very likely holdings for your villain to have.

Then we go to the turn wich is also not a great card for you. Completes gutterball for KJ (not very likely holding but he may raise the suited combos of KJ pre and peel in position)-but also some two pairs holdings get there.

On the turn the amount of combos having you beat is substanial, and its also kind of hard for a tight pro to have many bluffs on this board in a 3 bet pot,due to the board also smashes your 3 bet range.

To me its actually close on the turn if i want to fold right there or not as i think were drawing very slim a big portion of the time, but on the river its a clear fold and i think calling it off there is a huge mistake.
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:32 PM   #3
guess_wh007
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

. Unless he's playing any KhXh there's probably only two hands,QhJh & KhQh that he decided to turn into a bluff on the river, that we can beat, maybe a random KQ sometimes. We only need to be good 30% of the time, but I don't think you are. Folding is correct IMO.

Last edited by guess_wh007; 05-05-2017 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Because
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:45 PM   #4
Alsi
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

@guess_wh007: OTR hearts got there as well...

@Petrucci: On the river we are died... good suggestion to fold OTT...
but then questions:

1) aint we folding too often if we fold OTT??
Because we might often Bet flop check turn...? or x/c x/c?


2) Any reason to Bet flop B/F turn and X/F river??

3)?what if Turn was a blank? ie 2c
then river 3h


4) what if river was blank and we called turn?

5) on such wet board, ok he bets 590k we might call 10% of time - while if he bets 100 we might call 90%? what are reasons for vilain to bet 590
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:16 PM   #5
lolposting2016
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

honestly since ive been starting to play more again if its even close u just need to fold like everytime and youll come out waaaaaaay ahead (in these games) ppl are just never bluffing enough
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #6
diskoteque
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AK capped range facing resistance

In these spots I prefer to bet turn to maintain an uncapped range so that when I check river (and we almost always have to on this turn bc his range is very strong) it could appear that I am trapping with a hand I want action with and it just goes check check.

Once you check turn a good villain is going to blast two streets with his entire range (a lot of which beats us).
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:43 PM   #7
Petrucci
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi View Post
@guess_wh007: OTR hearts got there as well...

@Petrucci: On the river we are died... good suggestion to fold OTT...
but then questions:

1) aint we folding too often if we fold OTT??
Because we might often Bet flop check turn...? or x/c x/c?


2) Any reason to Bet flop B/F turn and X/F river??

3)?what if Turn was a blank? ie 2c
then river 3h


4) what if river was blank and we called turn?

5) on such wet board, ok he bets 590k we might call 10% of time - while if he bets 100 we might call 90%? what are reasons for vilain to bet 590


1)Not necessarily. First of all its important to know if you log alot of hours against this villain- cause if you do, adjustments is more important in those sorts of spots to avoid being (possibly exploited) in the future from him. If he is somebody you rarely play with these spots will come up so infrequently versus him that i woudnt worry about it at all.

Main reason is just that we recognize this board is not the best for AK when our villain wants to stackoff. I mean, its not likely that he is exploiting you in this particular spot on this particular board runout: its most likely that he just have a nutted hand this time.

If you feel your range is getting to check-call heavy on the turn/river though, then you can always mix in some more nutted hands into that line, for example do the same thing with set of A or set of Q.



2) I believe check it over to him on one of the worst cards in the deck is the best play in this spot, so no i dont see much merit for continue betting on this turncard. If the turn is a brick like an offsuit 2 or 3, sure then its another ballpark.


3) If we call turn and river comes a brick it comes down to try and range him correctly, observe his betsize and those kind of things. Play poker.

4/5- I believe villain thinks you have a hand that you can stackoff with on this board (for example the hand you have), and he is going for max value. Maybe you two dont know each other that well= he gives you an opportunity to make a big callingmistake on the river. You may interpret the big riverbet as a bluff from his perspective-wich makes it more likely that you can do a calling mistake.


Just my few cents man.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:56 PM   #8
lolposting2016
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
In these spots I prefer to bet turn to maintain an uncapped range so that when I check river (and we almost always have to on this turn bc his range is very strong) it could appear that I am trapping with a hand I want action with and it just goes check check.

Once you check turn a good villain is going to blast two streets with his entire range (a lot of which beats us).
hes not just taking qj off and going for yolo
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:56 PM   #9
guess_wh007
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

@Alsi you're right. Missed that the 10 was a heart.

With this new information, why the **** is this even a question? This is the easiest fold in the world.

Btw, you're range isn't even really capped. You have some 'cautiously' played AA, QQ, 99 and A10 in your range along with 10 9 suited

Last edited by guess_wh007; 05-05-2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Cus
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:13 AM   #10
Minatorr
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
honestly since ive been starting to play more again if its even close u just need to fold like everytime and youll come out waaaaaaay ahead (in these games) ppl are just never bluffing enough
Yeah you think?
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:18 AM   #11
Minatorr
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by guess_wh007 View Post
@Alsi you're right. Missed that the 10 was a heart.

With this new information, why the **** is this even a question? This is the easiest fold in the world.

New information []

Btw, you're range isn't even really capped. You have some 'cautiously' played AA, QQ, 99 and A10 in your range along with 10 9 suited
3b'ing 99/A10/109s vs UTG from the SB seems like a really fast way to spew chips.

Yes, we are capped. We're are not x/c'ing this turn with AA/QQ ever. And 99/A10s/109s are not standard 3-bet pres 100bb deep effective SB vs UTG by any means without some kind of interesting history together.
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:21 AM   #12
Minatorr
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

This is just a fold, and calling here is going to be -EV. You get shown a bluff?
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:36 AM   #13
Alsi
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
3b'ing 99/A10/109s vs UTG from the SB seems like a really fast way to spew chips.

Yes, we are capped. We're are not x/c'ing this turn with AA/QQ ever. And 99/A10s/109s are not standard 3-bet pres 100bb deep effective SB vs UTG by any means without some kind of interesting history together.


to clarify I have been playing since october with this vilain that is why I read him on the tight side korean pro.

I dont think we need to 3bet very often in SB vs UTG when there is no straddle and no dead money in the middle..

What I am saying is in general as this board develops : we have way more AJ/AK/A5s than AA or QQ here... so GTO wise in a nine handed games even if we have been playing months with vilain live game - we might not enter often into a SB vs UTG situation with 0 dead money.


Once we bet flop: as we have less AA/QQ/AQ/ flush draw than AK AJ A5s in our range , we are often with Ax or Small PP?

What I meant is in those situations we can easily get exploited - should we just preflop Fold > Call > 3bet to avoid reversed implied odds?
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:13 AM   #14
Alsi
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
This is just a fold, and calling here is going to be -EV. You get shown a bluff?


I called and he showed JJ with Jh...
so he had the blockers to hearts and straights and JT


no just kidding Of course I folded and he did not show .. play it twice I gonna fold again... (Should I even fold turn?? I think his half PSB OTT is the exact limit to get my call...

That is why I ask the question - I feel like run it 99 times I might too often find a fold - in which case I should fold turn - or even Never 3bet pre (fold > call > 3bet even??)
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:05 AM   #15
fuxxnuts
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Alsi, was this the 25/50 or the 50/100 hkd @ the wynn?

5/10usd is literally in the middle of the two and from my small sample set I'm going to say it matters a ton which game you were playing.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:55 PM   #16
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Does everyone love the 3b pre? I think you could develop a strategy where you simply never 3bet an UTG raise and no calls in between. Assuming the UTG has any sort of reasonable range, what hands can you 3 bet here with? AA, KK, QQ (I guess), AKs and AKo. MAYBE AQs? JJ seems too loose to me. Say we raise with jacks and the board comes out "good" for us; 752r. We bet pot and villain calls. Do we really feel great about our hand on the turn? Even if the turn is a brick, like a 9, are we betting for value 3 times? And this is the best case scenario...more often than not an over card is coming out on the flop. Now youre out of position, the pot is bloated, and you can get floated to DEATH by someone capable. Not to mention value owned when he has it.

All this to say, I think simply just calling or folding 100% in this spot is superior and the plusses outweigh the minuses. You keep your range as wide as it can possibly be which super disguises your hand, before people see you do it a couple times your strong hands will be under repped, it lets you sneak into a few more pots with the bottom of your range, and you can set up a really nasty re-squeeze play if the BB goes for it. You also keep the pot small which is a good thing when in the SB. It ALSO makes the big blind squeeze less often, at least eventually, since people will find out that aces and kings are in your calling range.

The down sides are that you let the big blind in a lot, you give up initiative, and you miss out on value with your monsters. But all in all I like it a lot more than 'raising or folding', or raising sometimes and calling sometimes.
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:00 PM   #17
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

...Continuing

So if you just call and the BB folds, I think you can pretty easily check call 3 times. Or at least twice and make a decision on the river. I kind of like a really small blocking bet on the river. Maybe bet like 125 and fold if he shoves?
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:42 AM   #18
DrCooper
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Hi,

Haven't looked at earlier comments.

I ran a sim for this hand in pio. Obviously the results are quite sensitive to assumptions about ranges - I just made assumptions based on how I would play. I gave hero multiple bet sizes on the turn... results:
- Hero should check entire range on the turn
- With AK it is a check/call on turn and check/fold on river. check/call on river is AQ and AA.
- Also AK can be a check/call on the flop - pio suggests a mix.
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:19 AM   #19
DrCooper
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Also although I haven't analysed in pio I'm sure that 3bet pre is okay
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:55 AM   #20
Alsi
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuxxnuts View Post
Alsi, was this the 25/50 or the 50/100 hkd @ the wynn?

5/10usd is literally in the middle of the two and from my small sample set I'm going to say it matters a ton which game you were playing.

50/100hkd so should be less weak and more action.

@DrCoopee thanks for the simulation in pio. standard play then.
With AA, we have top full house , should I understand you miswrote when you sid. Pio says x/call?

@Like You might not be wrong , I realize that in that scenario i mostly lose money with 3bet or get a strong reraise as his perceived range is super strong .

at the same time in LP vs a single raise with no callers: our perceived range might not be so strong
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:34 PM   #21
DrCooper
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Re: AK capped range facing resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi View Post
@DrCoopee thanks for the simulation in pio. standard play then.
With AA, we have top full house , should I understand you miswrote when you sid. Pio says x/call?
Villains bet size is all in on the river so its either check/call or check/fold once we check.
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