I don't know if I can fold turn, maybe it's best but I don't think I'd fold turn in real time, I'd fold river tho.

Yeah I think his value range is AK, sets, and flushes. I agree with FrenchDonkey that it doesn't really make sense that for him to have a naked A spades.

So do we all agree that it's just some guy taking a weird line for value? The only hand that makes sense is JJ.

Cstevens, I think his sizing is bigger than normal, but I'm not sure how it changes his range without any reads. Some make bigger sizing to increase FE, some wouldn't do it without the nuts.

kind of hard to imagine AK being in his value range when he goes from 275 OTT to 1.1k OTR. (thats just such a huge bet in live poker)

the reason why he would lead turn w/ AK is because he obv isnt folding and he figures rakes will check back everything that he beats that has tons of equity vs him.

on turn when rakes just calls, villain knows he doesnt have JJ/KK unless hes terrible so on that river hes obv going to shove figuring hes on a freeroll.

This is such an unusual line especially from a good player and I don't know what to think of it. My first though was that he has KJ or JJ. Not sure what bluffs he plays this way. I also discount flushes since c/r flop or turn seems like a better way for villain to get value.

Kind of weird since if he's capable of donking turn at all it'd make more sense for him to just lead three times with a flush to prevent us from checking back a street. Value range seems a lot like either a hand that smacked the turn or something semi-vulnerable like KK/88 that wanted to peel a safe turn first.

That said he can't really expect you to fold too often when he takes this line, so roll your eyes and fold river.

[QUOTE=rakes;32878061So do we all agree that it's just some guy taking a weird line for value? The only hand that makes sense is JJ.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I don't think it's that weird.

yea same

Fold.

Sounds like we don't know a real lot about villain.

Preflop, he's calling 80 to win ~1600 so he could be wide here, even OOP. So we have to include 88/66 in his range. I don't see KK or he'd 4bet. He could also have 2 spades/tho unlikely.

Flop: if he had non-nut flush here he'd lead out or crai, if he had lone Aspades maybe also. He would know you'ld shut down big if spade hit turn.

On the turn, his donk bet was key/it was a great bet. The size is a bit small if he has a set or even if he flatted flop w/small flush. We could raise to define his hand but that would pretty much commit us. A big raise commits us and he's rarely folding the best hand here. A minraise would still give us control of the betting but give him odds to continue with worse.

River, he makes another great bet.

Overall, I prob play this as you did (and fold river). Sometimes villains play well, even OOP/LOL. It was a tough board for AA. On a technical basis we played OK/our only option was to raise turn. The only way to have things play out better in future with hands like this is to know our villains better.

agree with those saying turn is probably a fold and river is definitely a fold if we didnt fold turn. someone mentioned raising the turn and that seems realllllly bad.

1.1k is pretty huge
his range too wide, could have set/flush or ak/with a of spade
the problem with putting him on ak with busted flush is theres no point in leading for that much.. he will think he is ahead 80% of the time. so why scare out the money?
hes polarized it very well, its hard to say without being in the game but from what i see, this is in favor of folding against a rando.
with enough HH, you can call here. cause I will lead turn with KJ or even AsQ

I don't see how it's terrible just calling the turn with KK or JJ.
OK you're scared of spades but that's not the whole deck, the Jack of spades would give you a full/quads that would beat his flush and you keep your hand a bit underrepped that might allow him to bluff a missed As on the river (even though not many of these combos make sense but whatever) or value cut himself with an under set

Not really important but KJ beats you (i could possibly understand a hero call with AA if the board was like K86J6 or K86J8 because you could beat a thin value bet by KJ that would hope to get hero called by AK but that's only a few combos anyway)

with KK/JJ your not raising turn cause were afraid of getting sucked out on, you are raising to

-build the pot up w/ the best hand vs someone who takes a line that clearly screams not folding

-get the money in with basically the nuts so the river doesnt kill ur action

in other words, were raising turn not because we are afraid of spades, we are raising so that our opponent commits w/ everything.