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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 08-08-2012, 07:36 PM   #1
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5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Opening night last night at Casino M8Trix in San Jose. Everyone in a relatively festive mood.

A little background. Villian in this pot is probably best regular in this game. Solid, but tricky, aggressive but not spewey, uses position well, etc...I think most people think he's much more aggro than he really is because he's able to cultivate an image w/ his demeanor. I probably play a little too scared against him normally.

In one of my first hands at the table tonight, I opened TT in MP and was 3 bet by him OTB, I called. Flop was 78Jr. I check called 3/4 pot bet. Turn T, I led for 2/3 pot, he folded what appeared to be AA/KK.

This hand was about an hour later. I hadn't gotten out of line at all.

Villian in EP limps, two more limpers, I complete on the button w/ A7o. SB completed, BB checks.

Flop is A 7 8 rainbow.

checked to me, I bet 40 into 60. blinds fold, villian checkraises to 160, folded to me, I re-pop to 400.

He thinks, gets a stack count from me, and repops $550 more.

I started the hand w/ about $2,600 and he covered.

I'm not good at making laydowns...is this pretty easy? Would it change if there was a flush draw?

Mods feel free to move to SSNL if this is too basic.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:50 AM   #2
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Let's look at possible hands for villain. First off, is he the kind of player who would limp from EP with AA hoping to do a re-raise pre-flop? If so then I guess AA is possible.
77 and 88 is certainly possible.
78, the hand you are hoping he has, is an unlikely hand to limp from EP with.
Drawing hands such as 9T, 69, 56, are also unlikely hands to limp EP with (and you could say given the action on the flop, these are probably the least likely holdings for him).
He could have your hand, A7, he could have A8 (conceivable that these cards suited would be limped EP by good player).
I suppose he could have a high ace like AQ or AK but that seems unlikely given the post-flop action.

If he is a TAG player, I say this is pretty much a fold. If he is pretty LAGgy, or knows that you play scared of him and likes to fold to him, then I think you have to go with the hand.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:52 AM   #3
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

I don't see many good regs limping 77/88/AA all that often in EP. You talk about this reg as if he is really good, and I just don't see many good regs limping with 77/88/AA all that often unless its warranted for. If there was a crazy maniac I can see him limping those hands pre, but if the table was playing passively I think he will just open them

But all that said I wouldn't 3b flop, I'd just call and play turns, As played I probably just fold flop.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:05 AM   #4
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

I agree with mg. I think calling his CR is better than repop. As played I fold.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Stacks sizes would help this can easily be lol call if ur playing ~100bb
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:32 PM   #6
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Fold pre, flat the flop c/r. What to do now depends on stack sizes.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:39 PM   #7
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Quote:
I started the hand w/ about $2,600 and he covered.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:44 PM   #8
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Oh whoops, fold now.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:06 PM   #9
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

I make it 320 if I 3bet on the flop. If I 3bet this size it is to encourage villain to **** up stack leverage if he is ahead and allow us to fold our hand since I doubt even a good reg is 4betting an open-ender here.

If villain flats our 3bet we can valuebet the turn and a lot of brick rivers, significantly better than letting him c/r and hoping good barrel cards come for him. If he has any decent equity a small 3 bet will give us the lead and leave him calling while confused.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:54 AM   #10
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

So you 3-bet (why?) and get 4-bet by a good player, what are you thinking about? This isn't a great spot to turn your hand into a bluff, I just don't think he is even folding 88, but probably a8, and if the table is aggro enough pre he may even have AA! A stuff is sexy but when they call its just super spewy.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:31 AM   #11
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeBomb View Post
So you 3-bet (why?) and get 4-bet by a good player, what are you thinking about? This isn't a great spot to turn your hand into a bluff, I just don't think he is even folding 88, but probably a8, and if the table is aggro enough pre he may even have AA! A stuff is sexy but when they call its just super spewy.
I dont think he puts a thin 3bet like this in our range w/o showdown. We are not bet betting the river but We can bet turns to charge 8 out draws and AK/Q.

A call is fine but it makes our hand obvious as wants to get to showdown.

If he 4 bets then I have a decision, but I dont think it comes as much as expected.

Last edited by DaBowskii; 08-12-2012 at 01:33 AM. Reason: y4bet?
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:16 AM   #12
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

Since Villain is the best reg in this game, and OP limped OTB, V can pretty much narrow his range to be exactly 87/A7/A8 after the 3-bet. With that said, 3-betting without the intention of getting it in (which I'm not suggesting anyway) is probably a bad idea.

As played I'm folding.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #13
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

As played I think this is a fold versus this villain. I too would have simply flatted the CR on the flop and played the turn. 3b/folding with our hand seems pretty bad on that board.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:34 AM   #14
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

I love this game
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #15
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Re: 5/5/10nl Opening Night at M8trix, Flop top/bottom in a limped pot

OP: "I haven't gotten out of line at all."

But it can be argued that you played both hands badly... hand 1 you obv didn't want any more value from a huge part of his range, and what if he raises, are you getting it in then? hand 2 limping along like everyone else with A7o is not good, and what was your purpose of 3betting the flop, was it raising for information? seems like it was.
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