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5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. 5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat.

01-19-2017 , 12:20 PM
AQ is def high enough in your range that it's exploitable to fold here. That said, you can more easily defend with the Qh so you wouldn't be folding all your AQ. Also, folding flop is a population exploit; the large majority of players wouldn't c/r with flush draws or gutshots in this spot and just have 44/33 most of the time.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-19-2017 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
AQ is def high enough in your range that it's exploitable to fold here. That said, you can more easily defend with the Qh so you wouldn't be folding all your AQ. Also, folding flop is a population exploit; the large majority of players wouldn't c/r with flush draws or gutshots in this spot and just have 44/33 most of the time.
Isn't it better to fold AxQh because we block flush draws? And continue with AQ with no hearts?
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-19-2017 , 12:48 PM
No, being able to river a flush vs his non-bluffing range is worth quite a bit here. And the blocker is minor, he'll still have some flush draws in his range when you hold AQh.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-19-2017 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker
AQs plays better multiway than AQo. There's value in letting in the suit dominated connectors behind that wouldn't call a 3bet.
I mean I get that. It was a big aha moment for me when I first read easy game. But now I tend to favor lp16s logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
i mean just look at it logically. why would you want to 3b vpip with a worse hand than with a better one that will flop more equity, allow you to barrell more and make more nutty hands
Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Just lol. Who is exploiting you here for folding AQ? And AQ is nowhere near the top of our range here. Super standard fold
Are you folding pre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Well, AQo here is a fold pre if fold and call are the only choices. So, in that sense, the logic behind 3b > call isn't without basis. LP2016 is certainly correct that 3-betting AQs here has a higher EV than 3-betting AQo, but it isn't clear that 3-betting > call for AQs. So, it's entirely possible that AQs could maximize by calling and AQo by 3-betting, even though AQs is a higher EV hand.

Personally, I'd always fold AQo and always call with AQs. It seems to me very unlikely that the blocker effects alone would allow AQo to turn a profit here with a reraise. Specifically, I find it hard to believe that the Q blocker of AQo makes it a better 3-betting hand MP v. EP than a hand like ATs, A5s-A3s, KTs, etc, all of which have much better flop playability (which matters here, EP will call far more often than 4b/fold). BTW, all of those superior 3-betting candidates are folding otherwise here (sorry for the PSA, guys, but it's hard to make money in MP vs EP raise and you're all spewing lots here).
bolded is the concept I really want to hammer out. Because lately I've just been 3b or folding a ton of my continuing range and it's really working out well for me. And I believe I used to way over apply the "suited hand -> more playability -> multiway is fine" instead of lp16s "suited hand -> better hand -> 3b more".

Overall, if we had access to your live FR database, which hand are you 3betting more? I know it's a broad question and villain stats/positions matter.

For your last sentence, I would agree. FWIW I would fold in OPs hand barring a very passive table and a lose UTG. And I would flat AQs. Specifically bc of UTG open obv.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-20-2017 , 12:05 AM
What is your calling range in this spot pre-flop?
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-20-2017 , 12:16 AM
Something like 66+ AKo AJs+ KJs+ QJs QTs JTs at an average toughness table, adding the rest of the pairs and a few more SCs and Axs's (and maybe AQo) on a soft table.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-20-2017 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Just lol. Who is exploiting you here for folding AQ? And AQ is nowhere near the top of our range here. Super standard fold
Can you explain why using something other than a hand waving argument?
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-20-2017 , 10:11 PM
Alright... moving on.

Flop ($145): A43

Yada yada yada... Hero doesn't fold, calls...

Turn ($625): 4

Villain bet's $420, Hero...?
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 12:17 AM
Best turn in the deck for you, probably. I'd call and fold river if I thought he was good, and I'd call down blank rivers otherwise.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 12:48 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Villain's value combos just got slashed. I didn't count down my exact chip stack in game, but I thought I would only have about ~$500 left after his turn bet so I decided to shove... too aggressive? Thoughts?

Last edited by ThaNEWPr0fess0r; 01-21-2017 at 12:54 PM.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 01:20 PM
Shove is okay, especially if you think he's just freerolling you with his bluffs (meaning only following through rivers that improve his hand over yours and giving up otherwise).
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
AQ is def high enough in your range that it's exploitable to fold here
Can explain this???

Last edited by tremblingco; 01-21-2017 at 03:33 PM. Reason: [QUOTE=Renton555;51565384]Something like 66+ AKo AJs+ KJs+ QJs QTs JTs at an average toughness table
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tremblingco
Can explain this???
I think what he means, and what I was thinking was that if we fold this hand here, than were only continuing with like the 6 combo's of 33/44 since we don't have any/many A3s/A4s/34s combos here due to the pre-flop action. So we will be folding wayyyy too many hands to a c/r and if Villains know this, they can profitably c/r very wide and have to be very profitable because we are just folding so often.

This is not even taking into consideration that we probably also want to 3bet with our sets and unlikely two pairs some of the time anyway. So when we do call, our range is all draws and no value hands.

Not exactly saying that Villain is thinking this way (exploiting my tendency to fold) in this exact spot, given that we have almost not prior history, but I was just giving some thought into protecting my own range against a player whom I deem to be at least semi-competent if not more than that.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Villain's value combos just got slashed. I didn't count down my exact chip stack in game, but I thought I would only have about ~$500 left after his turn bet so I decided to shove... too aggressive? Thoughts?
I like shove more than calling here due to stacks. Wp turn imo.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-21-2017 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r
I think what he means, and what I was thinking was that if we fold this hand here, than were only continuing with like the 6 combo's of 33/44 since we don't have any/many A3s/A4s/34s combos here due to the pre-flop action. So we will be folding wayyyy too many hands to a c/r and if Villains know this, they can profitably c/r very wide and have to be very profitable because we are just folding so often.

This is not even taking into consideration that we probably also want to 3bet with our sets and unlikely two pairs some of the time anyway. So when we do call, our range is all draws and no value hands.

Not exactly saying that Villain is thinking this way (exploiting my tendency to fold) in this exact spot, given that we have almost not prior history, but I was just giving some thought into protecting my own range against a player whom I deem to be at least semi-competent if not more than that.
If this is all you took away from the post, it's missing the larger point that villains aren't check-raising this flop with the intention of exploiting you, and are incredibly value-heavy.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-22-2017 , 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tremblingco
Can explain this???
His range, not my range.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
01-22-2017 , 05:04 PM
Turn shove is good
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
02-06-2017 , 05:05 AM
Fold the flop seems fairly obvious. I think the turn makes us back off even more. YOU SHOULD FOLD. We called the c/r and Villain continued. What does that tell you??????

Villains range on the Turn is pretty much AQs,AK,AA,44,33 (most people slow play quads) and KhQh. You're losing to every hand but one and even that isn't 100% equity. The Turn is a fold, or a shove since you're calling the river anyway.

I agree with everything Renton said, he is a better player than me and should play bigger. This hand illustrates why you shouldn't call with AQo.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
02-09-2017 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift83
Fold the flop seems fairly obvious. I think the turn makes us back off even more. YOU SHOULD FOLD. We called the c/r and Villain continued. What does that tell you??????

Villains range on the Turn is pretty much AQs,AK,AA,44,33 (most people slow play quads) and KhQh. You're losing to every hand but one and even that isn't 100% equity. The Turn is a fold, or a shove since you're calling the river anyway.

I agree with everything Renton said, he is a better player than me and should play bigger. This hand illustrates why you shouldn't call with AQo.
I don't agree with your turn range at all. Villain called in the BB. He likely doesn't have AA/AK and possibly even AQs/KQs because he would have 3 bet those hands preflop. Also... If you think he can have KQhh OTT, why not KJhh/KThh/QJhh/QThh etc...
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
02-10-2017 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r
I don't agree with your turn range at all. Villain called in the BB. He likely doesn't have AA/AK and possibly even AQs/KQs because he would have 3 bet those hands preflop. Also... If you think he can have KQhh OTT, why not KJhh/KThh/QJhh/QThh etc...
I misread the PF action and thought villain was the original raiser.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote
02-12-2017 , 03:00 AM
Preflop: I agree with others that it's a fold/raise, depending on who your opponent is and on how much you want to mix your strategy.

Flop: Villain is only doing this with a set or as a semi-bluff with some sort of draw (would have bet with a decent pocket pair or Ax). I think the decision here is a close one and really depends on how you read your opponent. An aggressive opponent might bluff this a lot with draw equity and weakness from his opponents. But at the same time, the bluff is against three other opponents. I'd probably lean towards folding this one. Note that people tend to lose a lot of money overvaluing hands like top pair.
5/5/10 AQo makes a pair, faces heat. Quote

      
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