5/5/10 NL is the game.

Hero MP (~$1200) is a late 20s WG. Bought in for $1500, haven't done much in the first hour or so. Mostly folding. Villain may or may not have an opinion of me, not sure. But I do play a decent amount, mostly 2/5, so he has probably seen me before.

Villain BB (covers) is also a late 20s WG. I haven't played a ton with him, but he seems competent so far. Was caught likely bluffing in a pot where he called a raise from the blinds pre from BB, c/over c a KQ4 board and lead turn Q three ways. Got called by the SB OTT and followed through OTR on a 9 and got called by QT from the SB.

Hero is dealt: AQ

Pre-flop:
UTG raises to $35, Hero calls, SB calls, Villain calls in the BB.

Flop ($145):A43
Sb checks, Villain checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $85, SB folds, Villain raises to $240, UTG folds, Hero...?

I'd muck pre unless it's a really soft game (assuming 9 handed).

Facing his flop raise I'd just fold, but you probably didn't want to hear that. Given your reads on the guy the other option is just to call down on non-heart runouts. Considering the stacks are pretty shallow, I don't mind it.

live poker is dead

Hmm, this seems pretty tight to me. Although with that said, I do probably tend to pay off against better players more often, making the assumption that they actually have more bluffs in their range etc... FWIW I would muck ATo here pre, probably still call with AJo though. I didn't give a description of UTG, but he's a solid reg in his 40s or so. Not a top tier player, but definitely capable. He's probably opening fairly wide UTG with SC's and all that.

Maybe I'm over thinking here, but it seemed too early to give up with this hand OTF, which is basically at the top of my range here except for 33/44 which are only a few combos.

I don't normally play 5/10 that much due to it drawing all the best players in the room, but today the lineup actually looked good with only 2-3 other good players and a few loose/older guys so I decided to sit.

what position are you op

UTG+2

AJo pre is a 3bet or fold, definitely not a call - think about villains opening range UTG. If he's not a nit, it's probably 88+, 9Ts+, ATs+, AQo+. AJo is going to be dominated by a large portion of their range, whether it is overpairs or TP better kicker.

I could be wrong, but I think he may be opening wider than this. He's almost certainly opening 77/66/AJo/KQo. In addition, there are some looser/bad players behind me that I don't mind letting into the pot.

Calling pre is the worst option of the 3

I'm raising to 105, in position, with AQo. I may call AQs as that provides much more wiggle room postand likes other caller much more.

I may fold if UTG is really good and super tight from early.

As played, I'm folding. Someone should have better than a good ace, particularly because someone should have a good ace.

OP it's not so much about UTG's range as it is about the fact that six players are yet to act (each of whom could wake up with JJ+ AK and make a big squeeze). AQo makes primarily medium strength hands which tend to have trouble making money in a 4-5 way pot in bad absolute/relative position.

edit: And calling AJo here is a very big leak in your game. Easily loses >1bb each time you do it.

The questtion is what is a reg's flat calling range after one caller. I think you can eliminate QQ+ and AKs so you're left with JJ-22, AQs-A2s, suited Broadways, some SC, ATo+ and maybe some suited one gappers and other random junk. On this flop a regular is probably raising sets, 2 pairs and sometimes Flush Draws. If he is the type to raise to see where he's at, that is he'll raise Ax and his PPs , you can call down but if he is better than that I think it is a fold.

pre is fine

i dont understand why some regs want to 3b aqo and call with aqs...(this is a very common strategy, which is completely backwards)

Because AQs is strong enough to continue with, but they feel AQo isn't. However, it has great blockers to AK/QQ+, so they use it for their 3bet bluffing range.

AQs can stack opponents, and therefore likes callers, particularly when their ranges are worse flush and straight makers.

AQo doesn't really stack opponents (unless its a cooler or really fishy situation) and doesn't like callers. It's a good hand to play in position though and helps balance a 3 bet range that includes premiums against an UTG raise.

i am usually 3b for value with a hand like aq not as a bluff.
plus aqs makes more money than aqo so i like to add more money into the pot with it :/

Renton can you give your thoughts on the whole AQs vs AQo debate? I too have seen the logic discussed itt but tend to side with LP16 that AQs>AQo and therefore I'm 3betting it more.

I mean I get the whole flatting a suited hand multiway etc etc thing I just think people WAY over call these types of hands when they should be 3betting them.

I agree with being more inclined to flat with AQss and 3b with AQo but I'm definitely still 3b AQss a bunch

i mean just look at it logically. why would you want to 3b vpip with a worse hand than with a better one that will flop more equity, allow you to barrell more and make more nutty hands
lots of mtters use this strategy with shallow stacks and say i dont wanna 3b/f hands like this and its important to realize equity but with deeper stacks you can peel a bunch of 4bs and still have plenty to play for behind

So the consensus is to fold the flop? We're not worried about being exploited here considering that we're near the top of our range? I mean, folding here is also suggesting that it's correct to fold AK in this spot right? Since Villain almost certainly 3bet's AK pre right?

Also... to speak to Aaronk's point, Villain is in the BB, and the SB also called. I haven't played enough with him to say much about his range, although he would be looking at calling $25 to win $120 so...

AQs plays better multiway than AQo. There's value in letting in the suit dominated connectors behind that wouldn't call a 3bet. Either way I wouldn't 3bet an UTG open from a solid player with AQo/AQs

Just lol. Who is exploiting you here for folding AQ? And AQ is nowhere near the top of our range here. Super standard fold

Well, AQo here is a fold pre if fold and call are the only choices. So, in that sense, the logic behind 3b > call isn't without basis. LP2016 is certainly correct that 3-betting AQs here has a higher EV than 3-betting AQo, but it isn't clear that 3-betting > call for AQs. So, it's entirely possible that AQs could maximize by calling and AQo by 3-betting, even though AQs is a higher EV hand.

Personally, I'd always fold AQo and always call with AQs. It seems to me very unlikely that the blocker effects alone would allow AQo to turn a profit here with a reraise. Specifically, I find it hard to believe that the Q blocker of AQo makes it a better 3-betting hand MP v. EP than a hand like ATs, A5s-A3s, KTs, etc, all of which have much better flop playability (which matters here, EP will call far more often than 4b/fold). BTW, all of those superior 3-betting candidates are folding otherwise here (sorry for the PSA, guys, but it's hard to make money in MP vs EP raise and you're all spewing lots here).

I like 3-betting to $70 with entire continuing range.

Care to elaborate on AQ not being the top of our range? What better hands do we have here? Only 33/44? A3s/A4s? People telling me to fold AQo but call A3s/A4s? Are we really valuing being suited by THAT much? Also FWIW, in a game where I have to fold AQo to an open from most players... I won't even bother playing. I'll snap get up and find a better game... any game... a 1/2 game. There are 2 players in the game that I want to play as many pots with as possible.