Live 3 handed game that is lingering on after the main fish just left.
Both villians are decent reg players, not fish.

V1 is mid 20s white tag reg. $3000
v2 is mid 20s asian slightly looser tag reg. $1000
Hero is mid 20s asian tag $1535

There's some 3betting going on from all players, basically playing like an online table. V1 and hero have a higher ft3b, v2 is slightly more likely to call and play a pot. But both villians generally have fold buttons, as does hero.

V1 opens btn $35
V2 flats $35
Hero bb bas Ad4x and 3bets to $135
V1 flats
V2 flats

Flop $400
8 4 2 dd

Not too happy that both villians called. V1 likely has the strongest range, since he usually folds to 3bets. Likely two overs or a pair/overpair. But this is a pretty good flop for me.

Hero cbets $200
V1 flats
V2 folds

Turn $800
8 4 2 9 ddd
Now im certain v1 has something like JJ, TT, 99, 77, 66, 55, 33, 98s, 87s, KQdd, JTdd. Im discounting 88 44 22 because v1 is not the type to slowplay. It feels like a decent chunk of his range will get it in if i bet again, but some will fold as well, plus we picked up additional equity on this turn
Hero has $1200 back, whats hero's play?

V1 did flat with an opponent acting after him so I would give him slightly more credit for having a real hand otf.

How fast did he call flop? A lot depends on how wide he is calling your 3b and peeling the flop with an opponent acting after him. If he can hand read well enough, he's not going to just insta muck his one pair hands just bc a 9 rolls off, so you may be putting yourself in a position where you might have to empty the clip if you fire turn, but stack sizes aren't set up well for that.

not a fan of the sizing pre since you invite both opponents to call with a hand thats not going to play that well in a 3b pot, especially since V2 who is 3b call happy is only 1k eff. would rather have a more merged value 3b value range.

I should clarify both opponents had a high ft3b, v1 like 80%, v2 like 65-70%. So it wasnt like v2 was crazy, he was just the most likely to call

Obv lol small sample size live but i think 3betting here with A4 and my sizing was ok.

My real question is... What should we do on this turn?
Bet/call $500 seems standard?
Jam $1200 into $800? (I dont really like that play)
Check fold?

3b bigger pf

Decent flop to cbet but this is like the nut worse turn imo so I'm check evaluating

fist pump jam turn

also 3-bet bigger and bet a smaller bet in relation to your 3-bet on the flop

nothing is even close to a turn jam in EV btw

What do you mean bet smaller in relation to my 3bet? You mean my cbet should be less than $135?

He's saying bet like 1/3 otf

Because 3bet pot?

3bet bigger if you're going to 3b. But 3betting polarized with the fish isn't smart. As fogo said 3b a more linear range here.

As played, rip that **** in there.

actually on further examination your size is fine because it sets up turn jams better on diamond turns (or even 3 and 5 turns if we feel our steal % is high enough when we cram turn)

but I think it's still best to 3-bet bigger so you can c-bet smaller and still arrive at the same SPR on the turn

What value hands are we using to balance a turn jam? Seems like value hands never have an incentive to overbet here without history.

You don't think we'll induce a hero call here based on above?

If I was going to bet the turn I'd b/f smaller. I can't do the math since I'm on my phone and at work but seems like he's calling us a very high % of the time and we ate going to have way less equity than we at hoping.

At a 3 handed lagging table I don't think V is folding pairs here. I just check back and hope to get to a cheap showdown.

prefer a fold pre, +1 on 3b a more linear value weighted range with V2 in the pot here. id 3b a bit bigger as well as played

i generally would prefer a smaller cbet size here, but i also would prefer for turn spr to be a bit closer to 1 than 1.5 ott, so for that reason i think id cbet a bit bigger (~250). i think a turn shove looks less fos when its closer to a psb than a 1.5x overbet, and V will have less trouble thinking that we probably jam some value hands here as well with this sizing.

i dont like betting any size other than all in here really, but if you think he just will not believe you ever shove value hands here, then i guess just start having more flushes lol

back to the 3b range construction, i think you should have more flopped flush draws here than V1, but i dont know if that is actually case since you seem to be super polarized

stuffing it in seems standard, but I think checking is better, given that villain might not fold the range you want him to fold by stuffing.

If game is 5/5/10 shouldn't sb act first or is this 5/10? As played I check back turn and hope to improve river. Pre I would 3 bet much bigger and if still 3 handed over bet stuff flop.

Yea agree that 3b needs to be bigger
Flop seems std
Turn: prob depends on your frequencies/image/history and villains turn tendencies
Guess anything besides c/f is fine
Guess check/smth is best. Cause b/f kinda sucks and b/c may be even worse

I also don't think this is a must 3bet, why can't we just fold pre and wait for a better hand to play a multiway pot with ?

Prolly.....

SB: $5
BB: $10
BTN: $5

Jvds i was talking about a friend about this earlier, and i do like the idea of setting up stacks so that turn spr is closer to 1:1 than 1.5:1. However for balance purposes does that mean we should always size our entire flop cbet range (air and value) such that it sets up turn shoves when flop spr is 3:1 or less?

Aka we 3bet pre with 55 for ex same stack sizes as before, both players call.
Flop comes A 7 2 dd
For balance reasons should we bet large here to setup stacks for turn shove, even though we are never shoving turn on any card except a 5?

Ie if we had something like KdQx instead we might want to bet larger because then we can setup a turn shove on any diamond and some broadway turns.
This way we are always balanced vs good players when we cbet flop with our entire range?

you dont necessarily need to always bet to set up a turn shove, but you should definitely have an idea of what size your range wants to bet on upcoming streets, and factor that in to your current betsize decision. having only one cbetsize with your range should usually be fine, you can obviously have different sizes if you have some reason for doing so.

i wouldnt have 3b pre, and i would c/f with 55 in that example. i think it depends on how strong your 3b range is on that board compared to Vs calling range. if you have a strong range advantage, you might want to bet nearly all of it at a smaller size and play more than just 2 streets

A shove would look pretty bluffy and would take out a lot of value hands from our range imo. For that reason I think betting half pot and shoving Q and K rivers is better. Shut down on blank rivers.

Don't really like 3betting here. If V1 is opening the button super wide, I would just call. A4o isn't a very good hand to have oop in a 3bet pot.

What cards are diamonds on the flop? Can villain have 8xdd after he flats? Also, any reason why you don't include hands like QTdd, KTdd, KJdd in villains range? Any idea how villain plays 77 when you check the turn?

There're a few turns that are better to barrel but not many.