LOL sick fish, if you don't understand that your range looks weaker when shipping than when 5betting to 40% of your stack, i don't know how i can help you.

People don't 5bet bluff, so people 5bet bluff even less live, and people 5bet even less on a FR game, so you won't induce anything by putting 40% of your stack on a 5bet, nobody will think "he might be light, i have FE" and therefore you can be sure he will snap fold JJ-QQ.
When you ship you keep AK in your range bc i doubt you're gonna play AK that way (by putting almost half of your stack in the middle) so your range looks less polarized towards QQ+ when shipping


And to explain how fold can't be terribad, you have to understand that you're rarely gonna get called by QQ- after a 5bet for 200BB effective, so when you ship with KK you re principally hoping that he is light a high enough percentage of the time to compensate the times he will have the aces



EDIT : but you're simply bad (looking at the advice you gave on the topic about the KTo hand like "the guy is tilted and spewy, obvious limp call for 5,5BB raise with KTo", when the pot will be multiway since people already called with hands that obviously dominate your full of RIO KTo)

i think i would ship it here and pray hard that V1 has AQsuited or AK or QQ.
what was the result?

ummm... Y in the world would u do that? & why are you even thinking about V1? I clearly posted that V1 was a very loose player & can have anything, but hes still sitting at a 5/10 table, so hes not a moron. The issue here is V2's cold 4-bet.. Not V1's cuz V1 is going to fold 99% of the time unless hes at the top of his range...

- NYtoCALI

1: cold 4bet an oop cold 3b from a snug players UTG raise with a aggro image? AQs/AKo/AKs/QQ-AA. (29 combos)

2: Given my range for Ques1: we 5bet shove, he folds QQ AQs/AKo(67%), calls AKs/KK/AA(33%).

67% of the time we win $550
33% of the time we have 25% to win $2020, 75% to lose $1860

$369 + .33($505 - $1395)

EV = +$75.30 to shove, or 7BBs risking our entire stack.
Other factors: V1 is only calling our 5bet shove with AA/KK and that is ~15% of his cold 3b range.
I think this actually might make this -EV to shove.

Conclusion: I think fold/shove are close. I'd make the call in game given flow/feel. I'm a nit.

Edit: I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'm pretty sure as we approach ~215BBs this becomes a fold, and after 250BBs becomes a call.

3: We can induce a mistake from V1 if we min-raise or something, but it doesn't sound like these types of players are spewwy going to flat a min-raise with JJ/QQ. I suppose that means any raise should be an all-in.

4: min-raise/folding is a mistake if V1/2 are capable of 5b bluffing with AXs (it sounds like they are, and this would be a perfect spot to do it)

5: Our 5b will look so strong that I'm pretty sure V1 is folding everything except AA/KK. If we assume his cold 3b range on your UTG open is TT-AA, AQs, AKo+, some A3s/A5s/89s type hands then hes going to call with 76% equity ~15% of the time.

Yeah if you don't shove click it back to 650 can maybe induce but i don't agree with people telling to make it 800 or 900 (who 5bets a cold 4bet *2-2,25 the 4b for 40-45% of your stack on a bluff ?)

I think a jam looks weaker than a overcall, So I'd jam and hope to get Hero'd, As others said I'm not thrilled when the money goes in.

The hand went a little different as I remembered it. But the mistake you made there was that you thought V2 was playing off V1's aggression and over committed yourself by betting 1100. As someone mentioned earlier, I would min reraise V2 here and re-evaluate instead of betting 1100.

Hey Ajax, you are completely correct. So I'm guessing that you were one of the players at the table. Small world. I'm pretty sure that I posted the hand as accurately as possible, but we are all human & capable of mistakes, so if I indeed made any errors in my initial posting, this was accidental & not intentional for any reason.

I did indeed over commit myself by raising to $1,100 & I am very well aware that this was a mistake & probably the worst decision I could have made at the time. I was indeed looking at the situation from the point of view that V2 was playing off of V1's aggression, but regardless, I should have at the time realized that it was a cold 4bet & since I was the UTG raiser, then V2's range realistically only contained 2 combos of KK & 6 combos of AA. It is possible that V2 contained other hands in his range (such as 6 combos of QQ), but it was unlikely due to my initial UTG raise.

My correct decision should have been to either click it back (min-raised), because it would've accomplished the same thing that my $1,100 raise would have done & if I was 6bet after doing this, I would have still had the ability to fold. Or to simply fold to V2's initial 4bet due to how small his range actually was. This decision when the hand was played (just as you stated) was indeed mostly based on my perception of V2's range in this spot after V1's 3bet and at the time. At the time, I made the decision because of the hand in which V2 showed down 99 in a similar situation about an hour before this hand was played. So like I said, my re-raise to $1,100 was most definitely a mistake, but we are all human & capable of making errors. The reason I had posted this hand, was to get some insight from some other players to get their opinions & also to make sure that this mistake was embedded into my head so it does not occur in the future.

We're always trying to become better players & w/ out making & understanding our mistakes, we can never grow as players.

Out of curiosity, which player were you at the table?

GL at the tables

- NYtoCALI

NYCali, I'm the guy who held AA, you are exactly right, we are all student of the game.

By the way, the 9s hand I would 3 bet villian with that all day consider he is a lunatic. And the flop was 9/10/J two clubs, the Asian kid who shipped all in on the flop had AJ clubs, he didnt flop the straight with QK.

Hope to play and talk to you again soon.

lol... Such a small small world. You played the hard perfectly. It was definitely a mistake that I made & definitely not the first & most likely not the last. I live in NY so I seldom make the trip out to Foxwoods. I usually either go town to AC and play at The Borgata or just fly to Vegas or Cali because of how soft the games are out there. Good luck at the tables & hope to run into you again some day.

- NYtoCALI

His 4-bet range is AK and QQ+. Why would you ever 5-bet KK here with your img? It's a negative freeroll. Call. Think about how AK and QQ would continue after you cold-call his 4-bet. Give crazy asian a chance to spaz.

anything other than jamming seems pretty bad. I can't believe ppl itt are 5-betting and 'evaluating'... we're 200bb effective - no way is 5-bet folding an option. a shove also looks weaker then a smallish 5-bet in this particular situation.

Spend less time and mental energy analyzing coolers.

Many sessions are determined either profitable or the latter by hands such as this and other hands which involve a lot of money going into the pot. So something that in your eyes is a cooler, is many times very avoidable & if you just look at this hand a cooler, then you definitely have a leak in your game in terms of analyzing situations.

I most definitely in my eyes could've gotten away from getting my chips all-in in this spot against this player in this exact situation & this would've saved me more than half my stack (which in this situation equates to over $1k). So in my eyes, this was a mistake that I had made, & not in any way a "cooler".

So I appreciate your input, but if you disagree with my comment, I suggest not playing deep & not to buy in for more than 100bb otherwise you may experience too many "coolers" during your sessions.

- NYtoCALI