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5/10: Unideal river 5/10: Unideal river

03-05-2017 , 10:43 PM
Trying out some live 5/10 NL while waiting on my normal FL game to start. Most of the table has never played with me before, so we're all readless. Villain seems competent; has been playing more hands than me, but nothing ridiculous. No reads on his postflop play.

I have A J, starting stack around 1340. Villain covers.

Action:

Villain opens UTG 8 handed to 35, I call (is it too nitty to fold pre?), HU.

Flop (85): J J 2

He bets 55, I raise to 200, he calls

Turn (485): T

He checks, I bet 300, he calls

River (1085): 9

He shoves my remaining stack (805)

Easy fold, right? How does the rest of it look?
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 02:24 AM
Definitely not folding pre, 3 bet ok, too. I dislike flop raise. River is gross.

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5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
Definitely not folding pre, 3 bet ok, too. I dislike flop raise. River is gross.

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Why do you hate flop raise?
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
Why do you hate flop raise?
I think this spot is rather classic slow-play in position scenario. There is quite a bunch of additional reasons I could think of, but here's what it looks like in flopzilla vs a TAG-gish UTG open range
https://gyazo.com/4e138dedead6ee09d0a5d65891d3e74d

I would basically want to keep his (already narrow-ish since he's UTG and looks competent) range as wide as possible; vast majority of his bluffs are very low equity ones. I would think most of his pay-off hands (all his worse hands that go into check-call mode, in best case scenario for us, once we raise flop) will either continue vbetting turn (and probably river, too) and also probably pay off a river raise on some runouts. This is why I don't think we gain much by taking initiative on the flop.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 06:08 AM
pre: don't fold in 25 hand/hr poker are you kidding?
flop: mixed strat is fine. I think raise is probably a little better with unknown.
turn: betting larger since most of his FDs picked up equity and now get to make a bigger mistake. He has very few check folds.
river: ugh you are on your own.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32
I think this spot is rather classic slow-play in position scenario. There is quite a bunch of additional reasons I could think of, but here's what it looks like in flopzilla vs a TAG-gish UTG open range
https://gyazo.com/4e138dedead6ee09d0a5d65891d3e74d

I would basically want to keep his (already narrow-ish since he's UTG and looks competent) range as wide as possible; vast majority of his bluffs are very low equity ones. I would think most of his pay-off hands (all his worse hands that go into check-call mode, in best case scenario for us, once we raise flop) will either continue vbetting turn (and probably river, too) and also probably pay off a river raise on some runouts. This is why I don't think we gain much by taking initiative on the flop.
OTOH, I like what surfdoc said about having a mixed strategy on the flop. Sometimes I'm going to want to bluff/semi-bluff raise a hand and threaten this guy's stack on the flop, and how am I ever going to do it if I'm not raising the nut high of my range ever? I think he's most likely to level himself into calling down vs an unknown if I stick in a raise on the street where my range contains the maximum amount of BS.

Of course, calling has a ton of merit too, as having this in my calling range allows me to value bet the turn w/ like 99 when checked to, and not let him check/jam me wide.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surf doc
pre: don't fold in 25 hand/hr poker are you kidding?
flop: mixed strat is fine. I think raise is probably a little better with unknown.
turn: betting larger since most of his FDs picked up equity and now get to make a bigger mistake. He has very few check folds.
river: ugh you are on your own.
Just making sure the preflop isn't an error . I've never played live 5/10 NL before, so I'm not sure what the UTG 8 handed ranges look like for these reg type players and how AJs is doing against them (and it's not like I have to pay a stereotypical grinder off if he bets 3x on A hi board here).

I do think my turn sizing was a little small; 360 probably would've been better (and also allowed me to more comfortably jam like a 5c river).

On the river, I think my range looks something like (from bottom to top):

QJs
KJs
AJ
KdTd/KdQd
AdTd
JTs

So really, I just have AJ here a ton. I decided to fold at game speed because he just has a bunch of strong hands (A hi flushes, K hi flushes, maybe even KhQh if he felt ambitious pre, Jacks full, Tens full) and I can't imagine a live player would try to get an unknown off trips or a K hi flush very often. If I play this game more often, then I probably have to call here some of the time.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 01:09 PM
Your preflop position?
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Your preflop position?
Apologies. I am 3 off BTN
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-06-2017 , 02:32 PM
Pre is fine. Flop I'd raise a bit smaller. Turn I'd bet a bit bigger. River I'd fold. That said, folding is exploitable as you don't have many boats or nut flushes here at all, and you probably cannot have the AJ with Ad. I doubt you would raise flop with JJ/JT/J9, so you're essentially capped at 22 on the river and this hand would be high enough in your range to be a call vs an aggro opponent.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-07-2017 , 01:32 PM
the whole hand looks fine to me.
but better if u had a loose image for the raise OTF.

my question would more likely be,

what do you do on those rivers vs shove?

1. 9c/s river?
2. 9h river?
3. Qh or Kh river?
4. Ad river?
5. 5d river?
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-07-2017 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi
the whole hand looks fine to me.
but better if u had a loose image for the raise OTF.

my question would more likely be,

what do you do on those rivers vs shove?

1. 9c/s river?
2. 9h river?
3. Qh or Kh river?
4. Ad river?
5. 5d river?
1) Cry call
2) Cry call
3) Cry call
4) Snap call
5) Get the clock called on me because I've literally no idea.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-07-2017 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
1) Cry call
2) Cry call
3) Cry call
4) Snap call
5) Get the clock called on me because I've literally no idea.
4) was stupid question lol :P I meant Kd

in the end you are likely up against JT/J9

I think 9d is a card that makes u least mistake OTR even if you lost
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-10-2017 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi
4) was stupid question lol :P I meant Kd

in the end you are likely up against JT/J9

I think 9d is a card that makes u least mistake OTR even if you lost
I personally thought his most likely hand was TT looking to let me hang myself. I think it'd be weird for him to shove a flush here, given what I ended up folding with.
5/10: Unideal river Quote
03-14-2017 , 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
Trying out some live 5/10 NL while waiting on my normal FL game to start. Most of the table has never played with me before, so we're all readless. Villain seems competent; has been playing more hands than me, but nothing ridiculous. No reads on his postflop play.

I have A J, starting stack around 1340. Villain covers.

Action:

Villain opens UTG 8 handed to 35, I call (is it too nitty to fold pre?), HU.

Flop (85): J J 2

He bets 55, I raise to 200, he calls

Turn (485): T

He checks, I bet 300, he calls

River (1085): 9

He shoves my remaining stack (805)

Easy fold, right? How does the rest of it look?
what is your position? Given this action and given stakes (and assumptions on regs at these stakes) I'd fold pretty happily. #NoOneBluffs
5/10: Unideal river Quote

      
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