Hero underolled (usually plays 2/5 3/6 but no table that night) with approx 600$

Vilain seems to be a reg, attitude like considering himself to be good tag, just arrived at table with 1500$ (the other table broke so they joined us)

Full ring, Vilain in SB, hero in CO with K7dd

Limped pot approx 6 ppls in the pot, btn folded so Hero has position

Flop Kh2h8d (pot 60$)
No straight draw...

Checked to hero: no kicker and pretty "dry" beside the flush draw, no higher card can come except Ace, 2 pair later on possible : I decided to check in order to get thin value from a second pair on later street

Turn: Jd (60$ pot) check to hero
I picked up a flush draw, the board becomes to be drawy with 2 flush draw and straight draw, time to value : hero bets 30$ (unlikely anyone has a monster hand here with 2 orbit checks, so thin bet to keep a J or so in pot?)

Vilain in SB reraise to 100$,
Hero tank call (flush draw and also : what can he has? J8? But this is really strong bet oop ? We still have 2nd flush draw to rely on if we are behind... So i just stopped analysis and called)


River 5c ((260$ pot)

Vilain clic bet 200$ on the river , KJ seems not probable : would he have check turn instead of check flop+ turn? Would he dare to value hard other 2 pairs ? The over 3x raise in turn sounds a lot to me?) would 2 pairs or trips check twice turn + flop?

Hero?

don't play underolled.
fold pre- don't limp with trashy hands preflop esp when you aren't deep.

since you played, it would be better to bet the flop and decide what to do OTT. I'd probably check once i picked up the extra equity, getting raised sucks as you can see.

OTR it's a tough situation and you'll need to go with your read. you need to be good 44% of the time. What is the range you put him on? how many combos of each hand are there?

Obviously in general you want to avoid putting yourself in situations where you have difficult decisions. Some players are comfortable enough to play these hands +EV but even still this one would be very marginal. You are probably not one of those players, add to that you are playing higher than normal stakes. FFS just fold pre.

Yea.. Picking up equity and xb is standard line .. I was greedy on trying to thin value 2nd pair IP- greedy?

K7s limped in CO to hope to get the button and play a multi way IP livetard style...
(Where thin value someone with 2nd pair is often possible)

I put him on:
ATs QTs Q9s T9s with fd = 8 combos
A2s with FD = 1 combo
Other FD hand I think would not check twice to take this line?
J8 = 9 combos
J2s = 2 combo

I dont think river helped him and I dont think he would have played trips or Kings up this way (eg double check on super drawy board )

Am I underestimating his range?

On the river I think he unimproved and still have an hard time to understand this decent x/r ott in limped pot after 2 checks and my Btn stab...
I also have an hard time to put him on hearts because if he decided to take a passive line with the flush draw on the flop - why he raised turn? If flop is a missed x/r then why no bet turn? That is why I think his hand has something to do with J and KJ is unlikely otherwise he might bet flop?

What range would you put him on?

Deregister pre

Its a $200 bet into a $260 pot, so you he needs to be good less than 1/3 of the time to make it worth it to call - right?

I like bet/folding the flop. You can check behind there 3-way, but you can't give 5 players a free card particularly in a limp pot.

bet flop small imo

Yes but as played now OTR...does it make sense to eliminate trips and kings up as I did? Even not giving much credits to Jacks up...?

learn basic strategy and go play blackjack imo. If you must play poker, I'd put your whole roll on the table and challenge everyone to flip for stacks. Most people run better in Vegas, so I would employ this strategy there.

thanks ECGrinder for your advice. I think I have a lot to learn and I have been lucky for past years to have a positive net result and built up a bankroll.

Fyi I might have done a donky read , and got lucky, i called and he tabled A4dd.

However my quesion is , will I be good 1/3 of time there in this situation, any thoughts on this question? Are we good 1/3 of times?

usually not. the best play is to fold pre. iso pre if you were a good player and way deeper.

Ok got lucky then

Do u mean a good reg player like Vilain would check twice 6 way on this board in SB?

What range you put him on ? Thanks

Pre is fine to have a limping range in l.p. w hands like this w decent playability but to weak to raise a bunch of limpers,and some nutty potential. Its prolly a +ev vpip but not by much

Is this in Macau

preflop = smallball but short stack would be my main error. Iso play cost 6 to 8bb in this situation.

anyone can help me to answer:

What do you put Vilain ott with his x/r? (Profile reg 150bb, look like a profitable player)

And otr?

can you give credit to vilain for trips or 2 pairs in this kind of spot?

I think I was drunk when I posted the math lol sorry...

You need to call 200 to win 460 so 200/(200+260) = 30.3%

grunch

I bet more on the turn. I like the flop check back. As played I fold, looks like 2 pair from villain. I think he would bet more on the turn and river if it was a bluff.

thanks

turn pot = 150 bet (60 in pot 30 from me and 30 if he calls)= he raises to 100 that s half pot and 3.3 my bet which is correct?
river 200 into 260 so 4/5 psb?

on the turn
so it is a good play from SB to double check raise 2 different flush draw + straight board oops?
is it a common play? please tell me your analysis

OTT regarding vilain s play, do you think x/r with 2 pairs in so multi way pot is a good play ? , with a checked around flop. except if he has flush draw to come
with 2p?... and even with that ..)
as more than half of the deck puts a flush or completing an oesd OTR... what do you think?
against a normal stack aggro player he might face a raise or big bet on scare card on river


OTR he insta bet 200 into 260, did he put me on a weak 2 pairs or weak king?

as played my play makes me a station if i understand well

As played - shove the turn.

shoving turn on an unraised pot with TPWK 2nd nut flush draw against a SB where KJ8 are there? What can I rep there? J8 at best?..

Pre-preflop: Are you well-studied in 60bb poker? Are you familiar with standard shipping ranges for all the common scenarios, etc? At the very least, it kind of sounds like you're flying by the seat of your pants postflop. If you're underrolled to play 5/T and are too cool to play 1/2 or 1/3, then check your Bravo before leaving the house and stay at home if your quite specific brand of poker isn't running.

Preflop: Seems like an obvious limp OTB, probably close-ish in the CO. Stacks seem pretty awkward for an iso (deep enough to make a pair of 7s on the flop really really awkward, not deep enough to chase marginal equity with a 2NBFD), but I'm no 60bb expert.

Flop: I think checking flop is fine on a K82 flop specifically with a hand that really sucks to have to b/f. But keep in mind that on 6-way flops, the value of protection is very high and the value of bluffing and protecting xb ranges are very low, so we're going to be betting very linear ranges. So when in doubt, don't xb top pair in this spot.

Turn/River: He reps thin, this board is very heavy on semis (all of which missed), and this is the top of our range. Villain raising with 4 players to act might be an argument for us just giving him credit regardless of what our range looks like, but that's a bad assumption of to make in my own games on a KJ8xds board.

Don't play under rolled, but whatever, YOLO. Definitely don't limp K7s only 60 BBs deep. Wait for hands that make TPGK, easier to get it in ahead. As played, bet/fold flop seems best, your hand doesn't warrant playing a big pot and you are giving a free card to the whole world. Plan for the hand if played this way: As stated, fold if raised on flop. You'll likely go to the turn heads up in position, and as long as potential villain plays in tempo, you can check turn behind for pot control/deception in order to either pick off a river bluff or make a thin VB on river. As played on the turn, shove over the $100 cuz top pair and outs against a polarized range. Also, how does his attitude dictate that he considers himself a good TAG? why not a good LAG?

Limping cutoff is fine and i would bet flop.. Just to clear out the field and get value from worse pairs.. If i get called id probably check turn.. As played it sounds like a tough spot and weird line by villain.. But i think im gonna have to give him credit for better on the river. Fold river

You are somewhat in the middleish of your range by the river. This particular combo also blocks his bluffs. Probably folding river to this size bet without further reads

thanks

+agree with being more rolled.

my short stack strategy was from 7+ years ago.
generally gets TP in vs 2nd P through a slow play because "not expensive for deepstack anyway and we rep thin.

you do have odds to make play 2nfd OTF with this stack size (with K7-9 type hands I usually expect to play a 12 outter vs TPTK if I commit or a limped pot it is usually fine to call)

thanks for reminding the most important point I consider here: he raises with 4 players behind(but who double checked)


as an extend, in a reversed scenario (IP with 2 pairs vs a vilain LAG obviously drawing to something and capable to flop you on the flop with backdoors because deep stack) what do you guys think if we are deeper and it is a raised pot, if we are IP OTT with a made hand,
but with more than half of the deck OTR completing one of 2 double flush draw or a straight that we do not have? in this case should we flat call turn IP with 2 pairs hands ? (considering if we raise, competent LAG can call with a big pot and a Tom dwan all in on river on a scare card that we donnot know whether he has it )
I know I do give a lot of elements here, let s say eg 4 handed raised pot without 3bet preflop etc... I am sure u know what kind of spot I am talking about - are we always guessing?