v1: best way to describe him is nit... he seems pretty straightforward and from the hands i've seen, he's always had something... worst hand i've seen him bet was second pair but that was against the biggest fish of the table... stack size 2k, a lot of his profits is from the fish when he just bet bet and bet and value towned the fish... skinny white late 20's unless he's one of those older types that look really young... glasses, seems like someone who is competent in the tight and bet the goods type...

hero: villian has seen hero suck out a huge pot in a set over set situation but other than that, has seen hero play a fairly tag game, not showing down that much but winning a decent number of raised pots or pots that are checked around... hero has run his stack up after the suck out from 3.5k to 5kish...

v1, utg limps for 10... he's done that before a few times and so have others in this particular game... 2 random callers, don't remember who or stack sizes but probably medium to smaller stacks...

folds to hero in the sb and picks up ako... hero raises to 65... this is probably the first time hero has raised in the sb fwiw... we've been playing a few hours together at this point... maybe 5...

v1 flats, everyone else folds... pot is 150ish

flop comes j-j-7, i think rainbow... hero bets 100, v1 calls fairly quickly...

at this point, i am putting him on a pp that was set mining but now realizes that he may have the best hand if i have air...

turn comes 10 and hero bets 200... is this standard or is there a better line, such as giving up... if you agree with betting, then what are your thoughts on sizing...

my plan is to fold to a turn raise and probably give up to a turn flat...

Well if your read is right and he is a nit then I think the turn bet is ok unless you think he is a thin value bettor and might bet turn if checked to. I would consider check raising the turn and give up if called obviously. Also would consider a river c/r if your turn bet is called and he bets the river when checked to often enough with under pairs and your image is good/clean. All this is based on if he can value bet thinly of course. If not then c/f all brick rivers is fine I think. Just b/f all AKQ rivers also

I guess a question I have is would people play this differently given my reads?

FYI, these stakes are above what I play, but am hoping to do so in the not-too-distant future. Here's my council...

If villain does have a low - medium pocket pair below Jacks, then he might put you and your hand to the test by raising the turn. Unless, he makes it $1000 or more to go, then I'd consider flat calling. Shoving his turn raise is also a possibility, if he doesn't have a J or full house, then he'll probably fold... even with Aces.

Assuming he has 88's or 99's, no matter what comes on the river, unless it gives villain a full house, he won't be happy when you make a 3/4 bet into him. Of course, if you hit a A,K, or Q, then do the same - a 3/4 bet.

If my advice sucks balls, then say so. And remember that I'm just a $1 / $2 NLHE player looking to move up in stakes.


VS

I think your bet on the flop was a little large. The board is dry enough that half pot is more than enough. You could even get away with betting a little less than half pot.

I don't really like the bet on the turn. I mean, think about what you're repping. I guess you could have AJ or 77 some of the time, but you're repping a range that's very polarized and more skewed towards barreling. If you would go for the C/R turn stack-a-donk line when you're deep and have a monster, then you're really not repping that much by betting the turn.

If I had AA-QQ or a weak jack that I wanted to bet for value, I would check the turn a lot of the time and make a good sized value bet around 3/4 pot on the river. So if he's nitty but thinking, that would be the line I would take to get him off a medium pair.

Meh if hes a nit just bet flop and c/f turn

In a vaccuum this seems OK, but I think C-bet flop, C/R turn might be more effective in repping a Jack. Costs more when you lose, but leading twice is asking a really good player to raise you on the turn with his whole range IMO.

yeah. against some villains there is also value in c/c on the flop, but since ranges for raising out of the blinds are pretty strong you can't really go wrong betting here either.



shorn, I think leading twice is fine against fish (who won't ever bluff-raise or really do anything that makes life tough for us without actually having a hand).

Fair point vs. fish for sure. But vs a nit I am not sure it is best although I guess a nit might actually check behind with most of his range that has any sd value so maybe you are right.

^ The most annoying thing in these spots is like the players who will call you on the flop, and then when you check the turn... they like bet 4/5ths pot with like pocket 2s.

Its like.. they're morons for doing that, and its generally horrible, but those instances it works ... and I guess its their "donk point".


Its easier against nits in that spot, since they will check back the turn with mid showdown value hands. So it actually is great being OOP in that spot, since you get a lot of information from their turn action, and its usually 100% accurate.

I would bet 250 on the turn. It looks more like you are serious business than 200. Quick calls on the flop usually doesnt mean strength.

thanks for all the responses... i didn't check turn cause if he did have a mid to small pair, i figured he would check behind...

i was hoping he would realize my sb raise meant strong hand... i think even with aces i would lead turn since i wouldn't want to get valuetowned with aces by cr against an actual jack...

so given that i doubt he would bet thinly, given my read on the type of player he is, is the bet and size ok? cause isn't this a good spot to double barrel?

I like the turn barrel here. I think 240 is good.

Preflop, I think call > raise > fold.

As played, on the flop, I think check > bet. We're likely ahead, but betting turns our hand into a bluff, especially with your sizing. Are you trying to get value from AQ? Probably not going to happen. Are you trying to bluff 22? Why bother, when you can just check twice and realize your draw equity? The only reason to bet in this spot is for balance, if you're literally betting with your entire range here, and I think that's a bad strategy.

As played, on the turn, you have two choices: bluff or give up. I think check > bet, but I don't hate either option. I think villain has a lot of Jx in range here, personally.

If we do decide to bluff, I think a small bet works best. Betting the turn reps AA-QQ, making a smaller bet more credible, because AA-QQ will fear Jx here and will slow down somewhat. If I did bet, I'd probably bet $130.

Checking the turn has another important benefit: villain will likely turn his hand face-up after we check. If he has Jx, he'll bet and we can comfortably fold. If has has 22, he'll check behind. This saves us money when he has Jx, and allows us to potentially bluff the river otherwise.