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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 04-22-2017, 06:09 PM   #1
lolposting2016
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5/10 quick check

Folds to btn standard tag 1k eff
Btn Opens 30 I 3b 120 w a10hh he calls quick
Aqt one heart
I bet 175 he calls
Turn 9 bringing non heart bdfd
I bet 350 he calls
River 7 no flush I jam he calls w a better hand
Should I be concerned? Seems standard but I'm a little concerned about my blockers and the affect of his value range that I'm trying to get to call vs the hands I don't block which beat me
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:17 PM   #2
HairyLobster
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Re: 5/10 quick check

Its standard up to the turn ... what hands continue on that flop?
I guess Q10s is in his button range and thats coming along for the ride but i think it would most likely check back the turn hoping to see a show down.

You only started with 100bbs though so i dont think its that bad.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:32 AM   #3
Jarretman
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Re: 5/10 quick check

Do you think river plays better as a x/c? Flop and turn look fine to me.
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:31 PM   #4
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Re: 5/10 quick check

Seems fine to me. I think we need to bet turn to get value from QT QJ Q9.

I may also check call three streets in this particular situation if I think v is capable of bluffing down
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:07 PM   #5
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Re: 5/10 quick check

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Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Seems fine to me. I think we need to bet turn to get value from QT QJ Q9.

I may also check call three streets in this particular situation if I think v is capable of bluffing down
We have much better hands to trap with though.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:22 PM   #6
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Re: 5/10 quick check

id size flop/turn a little smaller; you can ~1/2p all 3 streets and be all in.

given sizing, looks fine. he cant really fold that much otr given how much youre jamming. if you think hes folding AJ and whatever AK he has then x/c is fine too, this is a decent hand for that.
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:37 PM   #7
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Re: 5/10 quick check

^^i think betting a bigger sizing makes more sense on this board where Im going to be having a lot of rly strong hands and not too many thin value bets. like my thinnest value bet is going to be probably ak. also im going to be checking this board with a bunch of hands like,kq jj, kk, tt, so when i do bet i think a bigger sizing helps me. Also I can bluff this size with hands that tottaly whiff like 76s with bds or whatever.
same goes for turn i can take this big size with my flop bluffs that picked up some equity and get some folds imo and have a very credible strong range to represent (my thought process at l east)
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:21 PM   #8
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Re: 5/10 quick check

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
^^i think betting a bigger sizing makes more sense on this board where Im going to be having a lot of rly strong hands and not too many thin value bets. like my thinnest value bet is going to be probably ak. also im going to be checking this board with a bunch of hands like,kq jj, kk, tt, so when i do bet i think a bigger sizing helps me. Also I can bluff this size with hands that tottaly whiff like 76s with bds or whatever.
same goes for turn i can take this big size with my flop bluffs that picked up some equity and get some folds imo and have a very credible strong range to represent (my thought process at l east)
if you were deeper, id agree with this. using a bigger sizing on flop/turn means were going to be carrying a lot of bluffs to the river that have to give up (since there is so little behind), which would be okay if we thought he was going to overfold flop/turn, but that seems unlikely here imo. another way to think about it is that when we have a big range advantage we want to use geometric sizing across streets to maximize our range ev, which here is 1/2p. if you think you rep a stronger/more credible range with a bigger sizing and he will overfold, then okay thats an in game adjustment that i defer to, but i dont think it is best in a theory/vacuum etc standpoint.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:52 PM   #9
boyrico
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Re: 5/10 quick check

I think you're being results oriented.. V can call off with tons of hands worse than AT in a BTNvsBB 3bp

I'd also imagine a lot of "standard tags" and rec players are gonna wanna raise turn with AQ+


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Old 04-24-2017, 08:25 PM   #10
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Re: 5/10 quick check

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if you were deeper, id agree with this. using a bigger sizing on flop/turn means were going to be carrying a lot of bluffs to the river that have to give up (since there is so little behind), which would be okay if we thought he was going to overfold flop/turn, but that seems unlikely here imo. another way to think about it is that when we have a big range advantage we want to use geometric sizing across streets to maximize our range ev, which here is 1/2p. if you think you rep a stronger/more credible range with a bigger sizing and he will overfold, then okay thats an in game adjustment that i defer to, but i dont think it is best in a theory/vacuum etc standpoint.
good post thanks
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:12 PM   #11
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Re: 5/10 quick check

You guys are gonna flame hard but I just don't see even 100bbs going in on 3 streets good anymore these days. Like he has no worse calling combos here. 1-4 combos of QTs/A9s? That all have to call.

I'm talking vs non-stations or in non-good games. It's just getting harder and harder to get three streets in these days even at only 100bbs in 3b pots (on this type of texture). Another option is to let him turn sdv into a bluff otr targeting our 1 pair Ax combos which would be very achievable if we had sized smaller.

So yea I'd size smaller and x/c river alot here.

Flame away.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:10 PM   #12
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Re: 5/10 quick check

My first instinct was that river would make a better x/c than shove. Not exactly for the reasons you mentioned though.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:12 PM   #13
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/10 quick check

I was leaning towards c/f tbh once I check he'll check back a bunch of stuff I beat and he'll jam a bunch of stuff better than mine. He will have a tough time Bluffing effectively here where I could think pretty welll about finding a xf
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:42 AM   #14
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Re: 5/10 quick check

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
You guys are gonna flame hard but I just don't see even 100bbs going in on 3 streets good anymore these days. Like he has no worse calling combos here. 1-4 combos of QTs/A9s? That all have to call.

I'm talking vs non-stations or in non-good games. It's just getting harder and harder to get three streets in these days even at only 100bbs in 3b pots (on this type of texture). Another option is to let him turn sdv into a bluff otr targeting our 1 pair Ax combos which would be very achievable if we had sized smaller.

So yea I'd size smaller and x/c river alot here.

Flame away.

+1. Its not the golden era anymore where you can get stacks easily at this type of stakes in many types of lineups. Stackoffranges have tightend up alot over the course of the last 2-3 years span.

Sure, exceptions are if you find yourself in a game with bad fish or clueless donks.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:52 AM   #15
Jarretman
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Re: 5/10 quick check

^ it's not really that bad is it then? Just bluff more
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:57 AM   #16
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Re: 5/10 quick check

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
^ it's not really that bad is it then? Just bluff more

Sure we can adjust by adding more bluffs. But that doesent change this hand though where we arent bluffing, but we may end up valueowning ourself a healthy portion of the times we are getting called down.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:44 PM   #17
br3nt00
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5/10 quick check

But doesn't that increase wr more bc we will get here more often w bluffs than value hands. Just generally speaking more opportunities to 3 barrel bluff than 3 barrel for value


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Old 05-06-2017, 12:39 PM   #18
day'n'night
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Re: 5/10 quick check

its fine
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Old 05-06-2017, 01:12 PM   #19
Alsi
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Re: 5/10 quick check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
You guys are gonna flame hard but I just don't see even 100bbs going in on 3 streets good anymore these days. Like he has no worse calling combos here. 1-4 combos of QTs/A9s? That all have to call.

I'm talking vs non-stations or in non-good games. It's just getting harder and harder to get three streets in these days even at only 100bbs in 3b pots (on this type of texture). Another option is to let him turn sdv into a bluff otr targeting our 1 pair Ax combos which would be very achievable if we had sized smaller.

So yea I'd size smaller and x/c river alot here.

Flame away.
Flame me as well... no one sees merits in x turn in a WA/WB?

let s assume he got AK/AJ he got 7 outs against us of which 3 of them might not make him value bet (ie 2 pairs AJ/AK)
For KQ/JQ, can we consider he already paid sufficiently?

I never felt Top and bottom as a good 3 streets value hand in those flops..
(I prefer bottom 2 so he has more chance to have AK?)
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:41 PM   #20
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Re: 5/10 quick check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
You guys are gonna flame hard but I just don't see even 100bbs going in on 3 streets good anymore these days. Like he has no worse calling combos here. 1-4 combos of QTs/A9s? That all have to call.

I'm talking vs non-stations or in non-good games. It's just getting harder and harder to get three streets in these days even at only 100bbs in 3b pots (on this type of texture). Another option is to let him turn sdv into a bluff otr targeting our 1 pair Ax combos which would be very achievable if we had sized smaller.

So yea I'd size smaller and x/c river alot here.

Flame away.
he'll have AJ and some AK, which i doubt are going to be 0% calls, esp given how much is left on the river. i agree its thin though; i dont think hes going to bluff much when checked to anyways, so i dont think it makes too much of a difference. we occasionally get stacks in vs hands that would have checked back when we bet, and get to pick off a few bluffs when we check, but the results will be the same vs the rest of his range

with smaller sizing on prior streets i have no problem with x/c this river as a default (dont feel strongly either way) since KQ etc is more likely to bluff when checked to
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