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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 04-15-2017, 03:27 PM   #1
Poker_Tiger
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5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Live 5/10. My image afaik is solid TAG.

Villian is solid TAG who I haven't seen get out of line except
maybe when he went all in preflop with AK for $1k -
Small Blind - $1.1k

Hero - $1.1 k effective stack - Hijack

Action:
1 limper (directly to my right). Hero makes it $40 to go with KK.
SB, BB, and limper call.

Flop: Q, 6, 2 rainbow

Checked around to hero. Hero bets $125. Only villian (SB) calls.

Heads up to turn: 3 (completes the rainbow)

Villain leads out $275

Hero: ?
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:30 PM   #2
day'n'night
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

fold
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:56 PM   #3
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Flop smaller

AP exploitable fold
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:40 PM   #4
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

How would this possibly be a fold? We don't have enough information on the Villain to fold here, let alone fold an overpair. The donk bet is strong but we are at the near top of our range here on this board. We have to call and see a river.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:48 PM   #5
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

I don't see how this is not a call.

There aren't really any 2p combos from a tight player calling your 4x iso out of the SB, so his range is something like [AQ, KQs, 66, 22], add to that the fact that he could be block betting JJ-88 and I think we can comfortably call turn and play a river.

To those folding, are you only calling QQ, 66, 45s on the turn?
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:55 PM   #6
Minatorr
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Solid TAG's range from calling out of the SB is pretty well-defined and narrow. Factor that into 5-way flop we cbet into and second his large turn donk setting up a river shove, pretty obv fold
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:02 AM   #7
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Call.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:28 AM   #8
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Call only 6 combos of sets I assume QQ is pretty much always 3 betting but let's include 1 combo of QQ making 7 combos of sets. There are 12 combos of AQ and 6 of KQ. Even if we tighten his range to KQ suited that's still 7:14

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Old 04-16-2017, 12:20 PM   #9
Poker_Tiger
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Thanks for the replys. FWIW I tanked folded. I didn't like folding
but I went with my read that he was super strong with the donk
bet. I asked my friend who is a very solid player his thoughts and
he said he would probably flat the donk and re-evaluate the river.
Saying he probably would fold if villain shoved the river unless
a king came of course.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:37 PM   #10
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Could be AQ

I'm def calling turn. River would depend on sizing/reads
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:39 PM   #11
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

A solid TAG shouldn't have enough worse hands here to ever make it more than a small mistake to fold. If your reads and instincts say to fold, then I'd trust them.

edit: it's pretty obvious why he'd donk the turn with a set - it lets him easily get all the money in. It's much less obvious what sort of coherent plan he could have that involves donking the turn with just top pair.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:15 PM   #12
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Turn is call, prob shallow enough to shovel. Fold never.

Have we redefined "solid TAG" to mean "never puts a dollar in without two pair+"? Also, how is AK gii pre for 1K in 5/10 in any way out of line? Also, how does a "solid" player achieve balance without "getting out of line" (that is, in the traditional sense of the phrase, or even in the way it's being used here)? There's some serious lack of logic/consistency here, and I don't think it's all due to trolling. Poker def ain't dead.
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:38 AM   #13
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Pretty clear call on the turn. What's the river?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:02 AM   #14
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

I have not played live for a while. So a solid tag c/c, donk turn means set on dry board? So we can fold KK here exploitably? Sounds crazy to me.


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Old 04-21-2017, 03:57 PM   #15
Ashiaku
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

What is the logic behind the donk as villain? Seems like anything able to call a donk bet here would also bet when checked to. He just removes your ability to bluff.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:11 PM   #16
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

folding ott is just ridic
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:13 PM   #17
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Yea if he has a set then its a cooler, lose the minimum and reload.
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:18 AM   #18
day'n'night
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

what on earth do you expect him to have? He must be pretty retarded to play AQ like this. We block KQ. He never has 6x... come on..
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:55 AM   #19
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

well there's a lot more combos of qx than sets and you basically have the best hand u can have here so calling down makes a lot of sense
And his turn lead is retarded here no matter what he has so he can surely show up w something silly
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:17 AM   #20
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle View Post
Sounds crazy to me.


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it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
folding ott is just ridic
+1
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:19 AM   #21
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
well there's a lot more combos of qx than sets and you basically have the best hand u can have here so calling down makes a lot of sense
And his turn lead is retarded here no matter what he has so he can surely show up w something silly
I play with multiple villains (who are winners in the game, cause it's so soft) that exclusively take this weird x/c & lead line with sets and no bluffs. I don't know why they do it, but they do. Versus those types of people I'm happy to make a fold.

That being said, until villain gives us a reason to believe he's one of those people, we can't fold KK here, it is ridiculous. I don't think there's enough of a population read on 5/10 tags to range him exclusively on 6 combos of hands.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:53 PM   #22
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
I don't know why they do it, but they do.
I know 1 or 2 people capable of thought (so the 1%) that take this line and i belive it is to ensure 3 streets go in. I used to think it was really bad but seeing it in practice and being results oriented I understand it more now.

I do agree with the first two posters that this is a really strong line, much more so than people realize. At times in poker it's important to look past the "Lol wtf he's gotta be bad no matter what he has" thinking and instead just memorize lines. A check/call/lead line from a non-obv fish is always very strong, it's almost as reliable as a turn check raise.

All of that said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
until villain gives us a reason to believe he's one of those people, we can't fold KK here, it is ridiculous.
I agree
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:58 PM   #23
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Re: 5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

sure its fine to fold if you have a super reliable read.
in live games vs villains you play against frequently its pretty easy to tell the old white grinder who just has a set 100% here and you can just lol and fold bc his line is just so unbalanced. that said id have to be dead on rock solid sure b4 i make this kind of hugely exploitative adjustment
(think thats exactly what jarretman said tbh)
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