Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep 5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep

01-11-2015 , 03:01 AM
5/10 live at the Wynn (I am a grinder but visiting Vegas on holiday). I sit down with 2k. The game has no max sit down.

I have been at the table half an hour or so, most notable hand I was in to that point was squeezing 4 callers pre to 300 from the big blind vs. a raise to 30 from UTG (who has 4k) who had been opening a lot of hands. Everyone folded. I had KK and didn't show. I have about 2,100 when the hand in question starts after missing and folding on a couple of flops subsequently.

UTG makes it 30 this time. 3 callers and I call with Kc Qc.

Shortest stack is a calling station fish in MP who had about 1,400 before the hand started. Flop comes Kd 5c 7c.

Small blind checks. I lead for 150 into the 150 pot. UTG folds. MP calling station calls. Button folds.

Small blind appears to be a SE Asian kid, overweight, with a cap on, has been on his mobile tapping away a lot, has headphones. He has 5k. I have not seen him in any major pots in the brief time I have been at the table. My read is he is a mediocre/bad reg as he hasnt seemed to be paying much attention to the game.

Small blind raises it to 470 (320 on top).

What would you do and why?

Will post my own analysis after reading the initial responses.

Last edited by BritishGrinder; 01-11-2015 at 03:10 AM.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-11-2015 , 03:37 AM
Against an unknown its close between calling and raising for me. I think you have a ton of equity so raising is not bad and you may fold out the NFD or a bigger king but if he has a set or two pair you are a dog and he could ship it especially with 55 or 77. Since you have position I would probably call and re evaluate on the turn.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-11-2015 , 03:43 AM
But on the turn if we brick he can bomb us out of the pot? And if the club comes we could be either dead to the nut flush or he doesn't pay us off with the set?

The stack to pot ratio if I raise seems to be that we have to shove over bet the pot if we do raise? But also seems too deep to get it in?

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-11-2015 , 04:47 AM
I'd let it rip and expect to see sets most of the time.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-12-2015 , 04:58 PM
Don't pot the flop. Now it's close, probably sigh and call. The station is likely to overcall so you get a pretty decent price to see a turn.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-12-2015 , 09:45 PM
Just call, keep the fat SE Asian kid in. Next?
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-13-2015 , 06:41 AM
you bet a lot on the flop with possibly the worst hand/stack/position/image for betting a lot on the flop.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-17-2015 , 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF
you bet a lot on the flop with possibly the worst hand/stack/position/image for betting a lot on the flop.
How much do you lead for?

Never and Malkas - I thought if I just call that I could get bet off the hand on a blank turn. I thought if I hit the flush I don't get paid, and when I miss I could face a pot sized turn bet.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-17-2015 , 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishGrinder
How much do you lead for?

Never and Malkas - I thought if I just call that I could get bet off the hand on a blank turn. I thought if I hit the flush I don't get paid, and when I miss I could face a pot sized turn bet.
Yea thats all true but raising allin (1500ish more?) seems a little out of line... and we dont even know what he'll do on the turn.. Plus we have a chance to get the calling station in the pot.. we might not get paid off when the flush comes, but im sure we have "potential" to squeeze in 1 street of value..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using 2+2 Forums
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-17-2015 , 09:49 AM
As played just call and hope calling station calls..

But with our stack size, I like a check/raise on the flop.. and if we have to get it in (they go allin over our raise) I dont mind because only sets has us killed.. we have decent equity against 2pairs/combo draws/nut flush draw.. and if it gets checked through, that's also fine..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using 2+2 Forums
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-18-2015 , 08:12 AM
Just keep calling to improve our odds, we are not folding out NFD or better hands anyway.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-18-2015 , 11:06 AM
Really don't like donking the flop like that, with that size too. Obviously your intention is to build a pot, but from UTG's perspective unless you've been crazy then I think he's folding a ton of hands he would've cbet with(and get called around to you..)
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-18-2015 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 663366
Really don't like donking the flop like that, with that size too. Obviously your intention is to build a pot, but from UTG's perspective unless you've been crazy then I think he's folding a ton of hands he would've cbet with(and get called around to you..)
I don't think there are a lot of hands he can c-bet OOP into four opponents?
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-19-2015 , 10:48 PM
he can't cbet a lot but other people can bet and your hand is awesome to check/call him with and check raise everyone else with.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-22-2015 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF
he can't cbet a lot but other people can bet and your hand is awesome to check/call him with and check raise everyone else with.
I thought if I check-raise I might end up having to call the last raise all in on the flop, but if I led I would be more likely to be able to get the last raise in on the flop?
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-22-2015 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishGrinder
I thought if I check-raise I might end up having to call the last raise all in on the flop, but if I led I would be more likely to be able to get the last raise in on the flop?
You'd be ecstatic to call an all in. Your hand is tits.

You check raise and you get draws to gamble a lot. You also get bluff-catchers to play a huge pot. You'd be repping a fd (not tp2k) pretty hard.

When you lead, bluff-catchers play a smaller pot and draws usually do as well (your position just makes any lead except a very small one super strong).
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote
01-22-2015 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishGrinder
I thought if I check-raise I might end up having to call the last raise all in on the flop, but if I led I would be more likely to be able to get the last raise in on the flop?
So you're trying to what? 3-bet flop to fold which hands that raise/fold?

It's a 5-way pot, putting money in here looks super strong. Just check and make decisions depending on who does what. We have a really sweet hand to bluffcatch with because even if they v-bet perfectly (i.e. no one bets KJ somehow) we still have a lot of equity vs their value range with a hand with SDV against their bluffs.

You're better off bluffing with a hand that has more equity vs their GII range and less SDV, your 8c9c, 6c8c, even 8cTc which has better backdoors.

Blocking top pair is pretty bad for a hand to get all-in as a bluff with.
5/10 NL. TP plus K high FD on flop OOP 200bb deep Quote

      
m